What's your BB/Hr at different limits?

[Guido]

I would like to get a better idea of what is a reasonable/good BB/Hr at different limits. Does it change and if so how much? I know that in a B & M game 1 BB/Hr is pretty good but is this at all limits the same? And how does this apply to an online game? I would like to know what your BB/Hr is at different limits and the amount of hands you have played there so I can compare that with mine. This way I get some idea of how much I have to improve at least.

I know I haven't played that many hands at some levels and these data come from different sites (Stars, Paradise and Party/Empire) so that may also affect the results but here are my data:
0.25/0.5 - 0.62BB/Hr - 1342 Hands
0.5/1 - 2.62BB/Hr - 14773 Hands
1/2 - 1.69BB/Hr - 19718 Hands
2/4 - 1.41BB/Hr - 10564 Hands
3/6 - 0.98BB/Hr - 61 Hands (just tried it for one hour /images/graemlins/grin.gif)
All levels - 1.91BB/Hr - 46458 Hands

I think your BB/Hr drops when you start to play higher but how much? I know the 0.5/1 games are very good so that's why my BB/Hr is probably that high but shouldn't my BB/Hr at 1/2 and 2/4 be about the same? How about at 3/6 or 5/10? Hope guys can give me a better idea...

Thanks,

Guido

[Guido]

Please help...

[obex]

OK. For what it's worth here are my numbers. Understand that with any response you get there will be a selection bias. That is, people with bad numbers will be much less likely to reply. Actually, it seems like no one wants to reply but I feel for you so here are my numbers.

Level: BB/100 / # of hands

0.5/1: 4.07/11,511
1/2: 1.91/3288
1/2 (6 max): 3.40/10,598
2/4: -13.58/532 ([censored]!)
5/10 (6 max): 2.99/1183

I decided a couple of months ago to concentrate on the 6 max games and that has worked out well. Up about 1500 although the variability is great since I've started to play more 5/10. I have no idea why my 2/4 numbers are so poor, hopefully it's just because of the small sample size.

I hope this helps.

[Nottom]

I could post my winrates, but I'd rather not.

What I will say instead is that it is very possible to beat all the limits you have listed for at least another .5BB/hour.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
my winrates, but I'd rather not.


[/ QUOTE ]
I understand, that's why nobody knows who I am at the tables /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Do you think you winrate drops when you move up? And you much? 0.5/Hr is pretty low IMO /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Thanks,

Guido

[snoopdarr]

Since you're playing at different sites, different rates of play, you should look at your BB/100 hands to see how good it is. The 1 BB/hour is based on a standard 30 or so hands per hour B+M game, so 3 BB/100 hands should be a good earning at any level right?

[obex]

Another thing to consider is the effect of playing multiple tables. I usually play 3 tables at once except when I play 5/10 when I just play one so I can "concentrate". If I'm paying bills, watching TV, etc, I'll often have 3 tables of .5/1 going - since trying to read opponents at that level doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. This brought my rate from 7BB/100 to about 4BB/100 for that level. I noticed my win rate at the 1/2 tables dropped when I started playing 3 tables as well, but the overall win rate per hour increased for me because of the extra hands. Plus it becomes mind-numbingly boring to play just one table when you're only seeing 1/4 to 1/3 of the flops.

[Warren Whitmore]

3:6
After 100 hours:1.3
after 200 hours:4.0
After 300 hours:3.9
5:10
100:2.3
200:1.9
300:2.2
400:1.9
500:1.5
600:1.6
700:1.6
800:1.5
900:1.2
1000:0.9
1100:1.2
1200:1.1
10:20
100:1.1
200:0.1
300:0.2
400:1.2
500:1.5
15:30
100:-1.2
200:-0.4

[Guido]

Wow, cool. That's what I'm talking about. This is probably online right? And it is your BB/Hr not BB/100 hands? Do you play multiple tables?

Thanks a lot,

Guido

[CrackerZack]

This information is about as useful as the suck and cut.

What are you hoping to learn from this? Or is it just a thread to allow the "look at me, i'm great" types to come and post their tremendous win rates.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
This information is about as useful as the suck and cut.

What are you hoping to learn from this? Or is it just a thread to allow the "look at me, i'm great" types to come and post their tremendous win rates.

[/ QUOTE ]
i was going to post my ridiculous win rate, but now that you have said it, i am just going to remain silent /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Warren Whitmore]

(1) "This is probably on line right?" Yes it is.
(2) "How is your BB/hr calculated?" The first 100 hours would be the sum of all hours played divided by 100 then for the 200 hours it would be the sum divided by 200. All results are cumulative.
(3) "Do you play multiple tables?" No, I am not a good multitask type person.

[Guido]

Hi CrackerZack,

If you don't think it is useful then don't look at it or don't respond. I just want to get a rough idea about what is possible at different limits. I don't have a good idea about how the BB/Hr will drop when you move up or if it stays the same. I hope you have read enough posts from me to know that I don't want to show off. I think I'm just a decent player and I have a lot to learn, I'm just a beginner. I made this post to get an idea about what I can expect when I move up. As you can see I've mostly played at 0.5/1, 1/2 and 2/4 but I would like to know what I can expect when I move to 3/6 or higher. That's why I posted it. I don't even know if my winrates are tremendous or not and even if they were I wouldn't tell them just to show how good I am. I'm sorry if I irritated you with this post.

Thanks,

Guido

[rharless]

Part of the problem is that there are so many factors to consider.

- Online, or live? Online will increase your rate per hour due to the higher volume of hands. Some people however have a higher earn per hand in live play as they are good readers of people.
- If online, how many tables? More tables will increase earn per hour but usually decreases earn per hand.
- If online, what site -- some are much faster than others and some have much tighter players than others
- What limits/kind of rake are you playing against? Let's say you play 15-30, and win two pots in an hour with max rake of $3 each -- that is .2BB/hr to the rake. If you play 1-2 and pay $2 in rake in an hour, that 1.0BB/hr to the rake. A big difference.

FWIW, I think BB/hr is relevant if you want to know the best use of your time, but BB/hand or BB/100 hands is more relevant if you want to know quality of play.

[Anadrol 50]

You are a very negative person.... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Guido]

Hi rharless,

Thanks for your response. I know there is a big difference between live and online and that the amount of tables affects your winrate. Same for different sites.
I use Pokertracker so I can overcome both problems. No matter how many tables I play I know my winrate/table. If I wanted I could exclude sites to know my winrate at each site. So I think I can still use my BB/Hr.

Thanks for the input though,

Guido

[CrackerZack]

But we're not just neural networks where you tweak the input params (like various level) and get the same result. If player X wins 2 BBs/hr at 3/6 and plays loose PF and very well post flop, and Player Y also wins 2 BBs/hr at 3/6 but plays very tight pre-flop and mediocre post flop, will their rates remain the same at different levels? Do they tell you what is really attainable?

Rharless's post was very good in response.

Androl's post about me was also spot on.

Zack

[CrackerZack]

If you're trying to get a theoretical maximum by polling everyone here that may have some value if you could, by some miracle, get honest answers from everyone here. But most people are so full of<font color="white">-</font>[censored] about it that it isn't that useful. The games are constantly changing also which makes this doubly difficult.

your post didn't irritate me or anything, or at least any more than I usually am /images/graemlins/smile.gif but we see these posts a lot and I can't find the inherent value in the information. Just because a great player on this site can win 2.4 BBs/hr at 5/10 doesn't mean that I can, or that it is the maximum attainable win rate. Plus, as Vehn says, a lot people can talk a good game, but how many here can really play it? I really wonder that quite a bit.

[rharless]

My point is, you are asking others for their BB/hr but your question is wide open. Do you want responses of BB/hr from those who play one table at a time, or those who are doing four tables at a time, or what? Do you want only full ring game players?

If you are trying to compare expectation among levels you'd at least do better to request BB/100 hands stats.

That said, I'm sorry but I do not have enough hands at different levels to give you an idea of drop off as the levels increase. I can tell you that as I have progressed through the levels that I am pretty much a break even player when I start at a new level, and I have always been able to improve (or get great cards) so that I can achieve my avg win rate of the previous level. Right now I'm at 5-10. As a self-assessed "good 5-10 player" however, I am better (so I like to think) than when I was a "good 1-2 player." If I dropped back to 1-2 now, I am sure I could exceed my previous 1-2 winrate, or my current 5-10 winrate. I can't earn at a rate that is 5x better, however, so I stick with 5-10. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sorry, these are not the exact numbers you are looking for -- just some info from my personal experience.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because a great player on this site can win 2.4 BBs/hr at 5/10 doesn't mean that I can, or that it is the maximum attainable win rate.

[/ QUOTE ]
No but it does give you a better perspective about what is possible and it could give you a not too unrealistic goal to strive for.

Guido

[Guido]

I know that the title isn't perfect and I realized that after I made this post, sorry about that. I get all my data from pokertracker and I know I can only get a rough idea. I was just curious about what a good player could achieve at different levels so I have a better idea about what could be possible and something to strive for.

Thanks for your input,

Guido

[nykenny]

location: online only
games: 6max and ring
limits: 3-6 to 15-30 (some 30-60, but neglegible)
hours: 245
duration: 4 months
octane: 3 tables on average
win rate: 8.24BB/hr

the win rate is quite similar throughout the limits actually. low limiit did yield a bit more, but not significantly more. Anyway, due to the lack of hours and hands, i am not sure if any of it is long term probable. win rate in 6 max games goes down fast when adding more tables. ring games rate seems to decrease much slower as # of tables increase. since table-selection is quite hard at multi-tabling and super-multi-tabling, i think full ring games are for more steady results (less SD).

i suspect that during this log period, the average hands per hour is close to 170/hr, with low-end around 60/hr and high end around 450/hr.

with all that said, i still wouldn't make any conclusion that a win rate of greater than 1.5bb/table/hr is easily ottainable or sustainable, long term. the sample size is simply not enough in my opinion, but that's all that is available.

hope this helps in anyway.

Kenny

[obex]

Interesting responses. Guido don't worry about the flack about asking for hard numbers from people. I believe it definitely helps let you know what's reasonable, what's possible, etc. In fact, davidross's post this week mentions how he successfully overhauled his game when he realized what other posters here were managing. That's meaningful from a guy who plays 20000 hands/wk or whatever he's doing.

[Alobar]

well since this thread is short on actual responses and my numbers arn't anything to brag about, I figured I would throw them out there.

These are all online, and I'm usually playing 4 tables at once, also they are in BB/100 hands, cuz thats what poker tracker gives them to me as. Convert to BB/hr as you see fit

20K hands 3/6: 2.09BB/100
22K hands 2/4: 4.14BB/100
11K hands 1/2 6 max: 1.91BB/100
8K hands 1/2: 3.5BB/100

[CarlNiclas]

Not to highjack the thread, but you do get BB/hr as well from pokertracker, both in real time and in table time. (Ie if you play two tables for two hours and then one table for one hour, real time is three hours and table time is five hours)

Look for it on the Session notes tab.