All-in on a draw?

[jtc]

I've been playing NL for a week, and am still trying to get the hang of it. This is from a pokerroom .5/1 NL game tonight - am I crazy to go all in on a draw (even though it's only $12)? I've been buying in for only $25 so I don't worry about losing too much of my bankroll (on average I make about $200/week at low limit).

Seat 1: ($29.75 in chips)
Seat 2: ($29.25 in chips)
Seat 3: ($39.50 in chips)
Seat 4: ($79.25 in chips)
Seat 5: ($11 in chips)
Seat 7: ($20.50 in chips)
Seat 8: ($98.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($23.25 in chips)
Seat 10: ($48.50 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
Seat 2 posts blind ($0.25), Seat 3 posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP Hero is in seat 9 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Seat 4 folds, Seat 5 bets $11 and is all-in, Seat 7 folds, Seat 8 folds, Hero calls $11, Seat 10 folds, Seat 1 folds, Seat 2 calls $10.75, Seat 3 folds.

This is the third time in two orbits that this guy has gone all-in before the flop, so I'm starting to question what he's got. I figure this is as good a time as any to call - I wasn't counting on another caller (the SB in seat 2).

FLOP ($33.50) /images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ] (3 players)
Seat 2 bets $18.25 and is all-in, Hero calls $12.25 and is all-in.

So, was this call a no brainer?

[b]TURN ($58.00) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif,4/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]


[b]RIVER ($58.00) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif,4/images/graemlins/spade.gif,5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ]


[b]SHOWDOWN results in white:
<font color="white">Seat 2 shows [ Ah,Kc ] Ace high
Seat 5 shows [ Qc,Qs ] pair of queens
Hero shows [ Ad,Kd ] flush
Seat 2 wins $6, Hero wins $23.50, Hero wins $32.

SUMMARY
Pot: $64 | Rake: $2.50
Seat 2 bets $29.25, collects $6, net -$23.25
Seat 3 loses $0.50
Seat 5 loses $11
Hero bets $23.25, collects $55.50, net $32.25</font>

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[MrFroggyX]

First the pre flop call:
I would never call so much, but you sad he had gone all-in a few times so it was ok.

The flop call:
pot($33.5)+your opponents stack($12,25) =$45.95
pot odds: $45,95/$12,25 = 3.75:1

Chance to hit a diamond:
52 cards in the deck - 5 flop cards - 2 pocket cards = 48 cards
13 total diamonds in the deck - 4 known diamonds = 9 cards.
48 total cards - 9 diamonds = 37 cards you don't want
odds :
37/9 = 4.1:1 on hiting a diamond on the turn
36/9 = 4:1 on hitting a diamond on the river

Total: 2.1:1 On hitting a diamond on either river or turn.

So you get 3.75:1 from the pot and your chance to hit a diamond is 2.1:1
Good call.

And you might even have some more outs. if either a A or K falls you might win the pot. that's 6 more outs.

odds :
31/15 = 2.1:1 on hiting a diamond or a A or a K on the turn
30/15 = 2:1 on hitting a diamond or a A or a K on the river

Total: 1:1 On hitting a diamond or a A or a K on either river or turn.

[cornell2005]

nice reply
to sum up, you have 1/3 chance of hitting the nuts. so if the (money you have to put in) divided by (the implied pot not including the last bit you put in) is less than 1/3, then go for it almost everytime.
considering you have K and A also, then bump that required number to anything less than 1/2 or something.

[NaobisDad]

I agree with your flop all in, honoustly I would go so far as to say it's almost a no brainer.

Your preflop call however I find hard to swallow. With half your stack in on the call, you're almost obligated to push in on the flop or at least you face some tough decisions once you're there. So I would prefer pushing in preflop here.

You already dismissed the notion this guy was holding AA or KK else you wouldn't have considered playing. So you shouldn't be in to bad a shape against this guy alone. So I'd say, if you decide to play this guy, who had probably read TPFAP: the system section, you should do anything in your power to get it heads up against this all-in.

I also don't really know what this other guy is doing calling this big a bet and a call with QQ, but that maybe a lack of understanding for the game on my part.

[alan11]

You should consider moving in preflop. That play avoids the opportunity to misplay post-flop. Your call was correct, but you admittedly almost didn't make it. This mistake is avoided by pushing in earlier. In the example you describe, folding or raising should be the only preflop options. I think you'll do well to call less often than you appearantly do.

[jtc]

I understand the pot odds. I figured it was a little worse than 2:1 since one, maybe two diamonds could give seat 2 a full house (at this point I figured him for a set of 8s or Ts with the big preflop call and all-in on the flop).

The thing I'm not sure about is how to figure the pot odds with the side pot. Let's say I was drawing dead to the original bettor, now I have to call even money for slightly worse than 2:1 against since I don't have a shot at the $33 in the main pot. In this case with this flop I didn't think the original bettor had me in such a bad position, but that was my thinking at the time.


[ QUOTE ]

You already dismissed the notion this guy was holding AA or KK else you wouldn't have considered playing. So you shouldn't be in to bad a shape against this guy alone. So I'd say, if you decide to play this guy, who had probably read TPFAP: the system section, you should do anything in your power to get it heads up against this all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it would be heads up, I didn't think there would be another caller. This was an oversight on my part. Should have gone all-in too before the flop to discourage any other calls?

edit: I see alan11 has answered my last question. That I call too often is probably not accurate. I tend to be aggressive. Here I called pre-flop because I didn't think there would be anyone else in the hand, and the original bettor was already all-in. On the flop the second guy acted before me, so I could only call his bet.