Save a bet on the River?

[Brian]

Party 5/10. Table is loose and passive, with 1 or 2 aggressive players. I am dealt 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif on the BB. UTG+1 and EP unknowns limp, MP loose seemingly passive limps (Didn't re-raise with AA pre-Flop or raise it on the Flop, always takes one off on the Flop, etc.), MP2 loose somewhat aggressive limps, LP LAG player raises, unknown CO cold-calls, Button and SB folds, I call, everyone else calls. 7 to the Flop, 7bb.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Checked to LP who bets. CO folds, I call, UTG+1 folds, EP, MP, and MP2 call. 5 to the Turn, 9.5bb.

Turn: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked through.

River: 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, EP folds, MP raises, MP2 and LP fold. Your move?

-Brian

[Joe Tall]

I call, river-raises from passives usually mean a better hand. He could have feared AK on the turn and doesn't think is Ace-any-2-pair is good until the river (I've seen uber-passive play a set like this fearing AA, KK).

I don't always make this preflop call. I like more than any-two-suited usually, but this pot is going to be big.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Tosh]

You can't fold. Your hand isn't strong enough to 3 bet. I Just call.

[Noodles]

Usually I would drop 72s on the BB if a raise in front.
So is it ok to come in if a lot of limpers are already in.
What pot odds do you need for small 2 suited with a big gap?

[Trix]

I fold preflop and I call on the river.

[Luke]

Brian,

I'd simply call the river against this seemingly passive player.

As for preflop, when calling raises from the BB with a hand like that, I'd usually want a little more of hand, maybe one with some high card or straight value to go along with the low flush value. But in this case, you have such good odds, I think calling has to be right.

Luke

[Schmed]

My move is fold on the flop. I mean I guess you have your flush outs so you may want to take one off but why? You don't have the best of it, you were in a forced blind, you may be drawing dead already. Get out and save those chips for a better battle fought.

Once you've made it to the river and caught 2pr you have to call his raise. Heck you may have won. I wouldn't reraise, just call.

[Schmed]

preflop I pretty much always make this call but I have to flop trips, 2pr, or my flush draw or else I'm out of there.

[CrackerZack]

that's a pretty weird line to take.

I fold PF and call the river.

[Schmed]

You're in the blind with suited cards. I call that for one reason, to hit my flush. Now if I get something lucky like trips or 2 pr then I'll roll with that too. I just don't like calling down with middle pair no kicker hoping to hit a 5 outter.

I call the river too. I don't raise.

[Tosh]

He called 1 bet on the flop comfortably with the odds to hit that 5 outer. Then got a free turn card.

[Schmed]

Yeah, I'd still probably fold on the flop with the odds to call the 5 outter. The 5 outter still might not win it. I think with the action like it is he may have won it but it's not like he's all that solid.

I'm not arguing his play really just saying how I would have played it. Once he made the call, got the free river, then made 2 pr, he's probably golden. I think that getting off of a hand like this saves me money in the long run based on the fact that often you make a hand that is second.

[Brian]

I called, and he had A8o. My hand was good, and I made some note changes. I think the pot is simply too large to fold, and I am glad my "read" didn't cost me this pot, because I did almost fold.

-Brian

[Allan]

You've got a backdoor flush draw too. You can't fold.

Allan

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
I called, and he had A8o. My hand was good, and I made some note changes. I think the pot is simply too large to fold, and I am glad my "read" didn't cost me this pot, because I did almost fold.

-Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it impossible to trust my "reads" online. I had a player marked as superduper passive (he checked-call on all streets with a low set on an unscary board), then I saw him check raise the turn in a multiway pot when a 3-flush hit with pocket 66 with the 6 of trump... WHAT THE F*CK?

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Schmed,

preflop I pretty much always make this call but I have to flop trips, 2pr, or my flush draw or else I'm out of there.

Having rigid, unmoving standards like this is going to hurt your game. Our hero is getting 15:1 on what you claim in another post is a 5-outer. He's getting good enough overlay to make up for the times he'll hit and not be good. The fact that this flop is rainbow strengthens his draw, and the fact that one of those is his suit is even better. So why exactly do you think you should fold this flop?

I fold preflop, but Brian played his hand perfectly postflop.

GoT

[Schmed]

thanks,

I think this is something I have to examine in my game. I do sometimes fall in to rigid traps that in this case I would have probably folded on the flop and I would have kicked myself on the river.

One question though, he was lucky in the sense that it got checked down when the ace hit. If there is a bet to him, say from a new bettor, "guy with the ace", is it a call there? I mean 5 outs, 1 to come, 9-1 right?? He'd almost be getting that from the pot so I guess it is a call right? But then you have to wonder about being beat even if you hit right? I mean how does that factor in to the equation?

I see why I would be wrong to fold this on the flop but once the flush draw is lost on the turn if bet in to is it a clear call?

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Schmed,

On the turn, you should fold to a bet. Exact pot odds aren't good enough here because there's the chance you're already beat and you'd end up paying an extra 2 BB's if that's the case. You'd need a decent amount of overlay in your pot odds to compensate for this.

GoT

[Senor Choppy]

With no straight or flush possible, an unpaired board, and a turn that was checked across, this is not a time to think about folding on the river with 2 pair for only 1 more bet. Call and get paid off by some genius who decided to slowplay AJ or AQ.