a little knowledge...

[jakuda]

What irks me most is when people "think" they are poker gods and spout off odds or say they did the correct play when they are totally wrong.

For example, a cheap nlhe $3+rebuy tourney to get entry to the $615 WSOP qual. tourney on Pokerstars. I had a bad night and nothing is better to fix a tilt than playing a cheapo tourney.

Blinds 200/400 with 25 ante. SB has 16k. I have 23k in the middle. Everyone folds to me. I have 8h9h. I limp. Everyone folds to the SB who limps, BB checks.

Flop is 6h, Td, Jh. 1400 in pot. Both check to me. I bet 1500. SB raises to 3000. I quickly go allin and he calls. I get a heart on the river to bust him out.

Afterwards he goes "I knew you didn't have anything...I was a 2-1 favorite."
Usually I don't respond at all, but this got to me (I had a bad night remember?) and straightfowardly tell him I was a slight favorite (4.5%). He doesn't believe me and still spouts off his "I was a 2-1 favorite" I don't say anything else and he leaves.

A little knowledge hurts you more than being ignorant at times, and makes you look foolish.

[GoSox]

The one that gets me is "nice catch". Some goof goes all in on the flop with 33 and I call with a flush draw which I get on the river. "nice catch"

It's like people somehow think the river card should count less than the other four. What did he have anyhow ?

[fsuplayer]

I am guessing he had top pair. Even if he had two pair, you are a very slight favorite!
Either way though you are the two to one favorite, not him. I definately just tell the guy I got lucky there...it pissing them off even more.
BTW Great Play there, I love those flops...esp. in cash games.
BTW Anyone here less hesitant to push it all in the center with those draws (open ended st. flush draws) in a tourney situation? What about a close ended st. flush draw?
Thanks,
FsuPlayer

[jakuda]

I'd rather the guy fold when I went all in and he should be wary with putting in his whole stack with top pair weak kicker (or even weak 2pair), but if he calls, no worries.

[curmudgeon]

Whether to push in or not depends on the tourney situation.
When you have a medium to big stack there's no need to risk it all when a good bet will do.
Even with a 54% chance to make your hand you still have NOTHING at this stage, and when you get called you will lose half the time. (Bigger flushes, straights, and full houses will beat you occassionally even when you make your hand.)

[curmudgeon]

When you win calling with a flush draw it is a 'nice catch' you lucky bozo! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[GoSox]

Try again "bozo".

Calling against 33 on the flop with four part flush isn't 35%. 8 outs twice for the flush and 6 more for the overcards. See, as the thread started a little knowledge can make people look foolish !! LOL

[curmudgeon]

You don't know what the other guy has until AFTER you call /images/graemlins/blush.gif ........... could be AA, trips, 2pair, bigger flush..... BOZO! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Exact statistics are only available for specific situations where all variables are known. So when you know the burn cards and what every other player held you get closer to statistical certainty. But hey, you didn't even give us your cards or the board... so buzz off!

nice catch........... now you're the one with your head getting flushed. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

enjoy those Freerolls... /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[OldLearner]

[ QUOTE ]
now you're the one with your head getting flushed

[/ QUOTE ]

Now there's a good screen name, "FlushedHead"

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't know what the other guy has until AFTER you call ........... could be AA, trips, 2pair, bigger flush..... BOZO!

[/ QUOTE ]

But in this situation I would *assume* that I am up against top pair and that I have the best hand. The fact that I would lose if we had to show down now is immaterial. I am the favorite to have the best hand by the time we get to the river. The other player is making an FTOP mistake to push here because he does *not* have the best hand.

[curmudgeon]

its only useful to talk about specific cards and board.......

[jakuda]

[ QUOTE ]
Whether to push in or not depends on the tourney situation.
When you have a medium to big stack there's no need to risk it all when a good bet will do.
Even with a 54% chance to make your hand you still have NOTHING at this stage, and when you get called you will lose half the time. (Bigger flushes, straights, and full houses will beat you occassionally even when you make your hand.)

[/ QUOTE ]

It was down to 2 shorthanded tables and only top 2 players get anything. 1st place gets entry to the WSOP $615 satellite. 2nd place gets $142.

So I'm willing to gamble instead of blinding and anteing away to a shortstack at the final table with little chance of making top 2.

Even if I have "nothing", I still have a 4.6% advantage on the flop. It's a far better bet than people going all in with pocket pair vs overcards preflop which usually happens in a shorthanded game.

Also I have a 4.6% edge on WINNING not just making my hand. You can verify with a poker calculator online.

On a happy note, I ended up winning 1st, so I'll be in the sunday WSOP $615 tourney on pokerstars.

[jakuda]

[ QUOTE ]
..........What did he have anyhow ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pair Jacks weak kicker.

[curmudgeon]

Good play, congrats on winning. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

p.s. I don't know what cards he had, but perhaps he was a 2:1 favorite when the turn did not improve either of you. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[jakuda]

[ QUOTE ]
Good play, congrats on winning. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

p.s. I don't know what cards he had, but perhaps he was a 2:1 favorite when the turn did not improve either of you. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

He had a Jack and a weak kicker. I forget the exact suits and value of his kicker. I have the hand history but I can't access free/web/non-office email from work.

Well he said he was a 2:1 favorite on the Flop. Which is what raised my eyebrows.

[cferejohn]

OK. On the specific cards and board outlined by the original poster, I would assume that my opponent had top pair. Is that better?

Are you saying you can never assume anything? You kind of have to at some point (unless you see some difference between 'assume' and 'put on a hand', but they are the same in my mind).