% flops seen at party 25NL

[BigMike19]

What percentage of flops are good players seeing at this limit? Right now im averaging around 35-40% over a large sample..usually limping in with most hands that have a chance to make the nuts and get paid off. Any opinions?

[jdl22]

I think that most will agree that 35-40 is too high. I was playing similarly and found that I was bleeding a lot of chips playing bad hands.

I don't consider myself a good player but I normally will limp with suited connectors greater than 45, 1 gaps from around 57, two gaps from about 69, Axs and Kxs. I play all pocket pairs if there is no raise as well as unsuited cards if both are jack or better. Not sure what that all adds up to but I think it's about 22% or so. Including the blinds I will probably see about 25% on a good day. Obviously this is if the table isn't very aggressive preflop.

[gavrilo]

this is insanely high

[Runner Runner]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't consider myself a good player but I normally will limp with suited connectors greater than 45, 1 gaps from around 57, two gaps from about 69, Axs and Kxs. I play all pocket pairs if there is no raise as well as unsuited cards if both are jack or better. Not sure what that all adds up to but I think it's about 22% or so. Including the blinds I will probably see about 25% on a good day. Obviously this is if the table isn't very aggressive preflop.




[/ QUOTE ]

If you play all those hands, you will be well above 25% into the 30 - 35% range. I don't think players should deviate too much from their limit starting hands in these NL games. I don't play stuff like Kx and will only play Ax in late position in multiway pots. I don't play the suited connectors unless in late position in multiway pots. Position is extremely important in big bet games and I just don't see the suited aces or connectors being playable up front unless the players are quite loose and passive. One adjustment I do make in the 25NL is that I try and limp in from any position with any pair to see if I can flop a set.

[mullaney]

I think I might play a bit more conservative still. My long term flop average seems to be around 20%. Sometimes it will bump up to around 30% for a session, but that's usually because I had a rush of good cards. There are a lot of hands that I would play in a live game with deeper stacks (like the smaller suited connectors) even for an average raise that I won't even limp with at PP. The reason is while there are some terrible players willing to give you a lot of action, the stacks are usually far too small to get great implied odds on drawing hands.

One thing about limit vs. no limit and hand selection. There are plenty of cards that I might see a flop with in limit that I wouldn't in no limit.

For instance, I'm much less inclined to play hands like KJ, QT, KT, etc in no limit, because the price of being dominated can be very great.

I'm much more inclined to smaller connectors and smaller pairs and Axs in no limit because the implied odds when you hit your hand are usually far greater.

[BigBiceps]

That is about the correct amount if you are playing 4 handed.

[BigMike19]

well actually i DO play a fair bit shorthanded, so that could be a factor. As for the imprtance of position, I find in most games I play on party, players are not betting the pot, or raising. If there is a lot of SOLID action i tend not to play many hands, or usually just find a softer table, seeing as how there is so many

[scdavis0]

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to play KJ, QT, or KT for fear of being dominated, but are more inclined to play Ax? Isn't there a great risk of this being dominated as well?

[Whistler]

I dont think that 30-35% is too high, in NL its all about flop play, if you can learn to get away from hands like KXs when all you flop is a K, its not a bad play. Just make sure you know exactly what to do on the flop and youll be fine.

[eggzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to play KJ, QT, or KT for fear of being dominated, but are more inclined to play Ax? Isn't there a great risk of this being dominated as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

He was talking about playing Axs , suited, not just any Ace. Big difference.

I agree and like to play Axs, any pocket pair smaller than 9 without a raise, and try to shy away from easily dominated hands like Q10o and the like.

I try to keep my flop percentage within a few percentage points of 25%, plus or minus.

[mullaney]

Only suited Aces. I don't even like playing AJ (offsuit) all that much and I tend to limp with AQ. The added benefit of hitting a flush, outweighs those situations where I may be dominated. I can get away from a pair of aces when my kicker is a three. It's harder to get away from QT when I hit top pair and get raised.