Hands I played today - better betting by me (LONG) - & thanks [Archive]

View Full Version : Hands I played today - better betting by me (LONG) - & thanks

Gomez22

03-15-2004, 07:13 PM

OK... For all of those who stressed the importance of betting fast here, I have some hands I played today between 2 tables at UB $.50 BB NLHE. If you don't feel like reading all of this, I understand, but I hope I'm somehow getting the gist of this stuff.

HAND #1

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

MP2 ($14.60)
MP3 ($39.10)
CO ($21.25)
Button ($124.75)
SB ($23)
Gomez22 ($51.55)
UTG ($19.35)
UTG+1 ($23.70)
UTG+2 ($24.05)
MP1 ($31.15)

Preflop: Gomez22 is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Gomez22 raises to $3, MP1 calls $2.50, MP2 calls $2.50.

Flop: ($9.25) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Gomez22 bets $9.25, MP1 calls $9.25, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($27.75) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Gomez22 bets $12, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $39.75
Main Pot: $27.75, won by Gomez22.
Pot 2: $12, overbet by Gomez22.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Gomez22 wins $39.75. 

OK - I know the turn bet may be a little suspect here, but all I could see MP1 calling me with on the flop was a flush draw or a set. And I DID have a note that he was a "flush monger". I actually meant to bet $14, but the other table popped up, and when I came back, I just hit the "bet it" button here. Nice bluff or totally stupid?

HAND #2

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

UTG+1 ($8.25)
MP1 ($49.50)
MP2 ($152.25)
CO ($65.25)
Gomez22 ($68.70)
SB ($40.25)
BB ($17.70)
UTG ($26)

Preflop: Gomez22 is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, CO folds, Gomez22 raises to $2.5, SB folds, BB calls $2, UTG folds, MP2 calls $2.

Flop: ($8.25) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Gomez22 bets $12, BB bets $12, MP2 folds, Gomez22 calls $0.

Turn: ($32.25) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)

River: ($32.25) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $32.25
Main Pot: $32.25, between Gomez22 and BB. > Pot won by Gomez22 ($32.25).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Ac Js (one pair, aces).
Gomez22 shows As Kc (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Gomez22 wins $32.25. 

I figured an overbet on the pot here was a good thing, and if he pushed, I only had to call another $5 to get to a SD.... yes??? no??? The 2 other big stacks at the table told me I played the hand very well, which felt nice, as a sidenote.....

HAND #3

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

MP2 ($8.30)
MP3 ($21.80)
CO ($48.30)
Button ($158.25)
SB ($59.55)
Gomez22 ($89.40)
UTG ($42.85)
UTG+1 ($20.25)
MP1 ($49.80)

Preflop: Gomez22 is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Gomez22 raises to $3, UTG+1 calls $2.50, MP3 folds, SB folds.

Flop: ($7) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Gomez22 bets $7, UTG+1 calls $7.

Turn: ($21) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Gomez22 checks, UTG+1 bets $10.25 (All-In), Gomez22 calls $10.25.

River: ($41.50) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $41.50
Main Pot: $41.50, between Gomez22 and UTG+1. > Pot won by UTG+1 ($41.50).

Results in white below: 
Gomez22 shows Ks Kh (two pair, kings and sixes).
UTG+1 shows Jd Ah (two pair, aces and sixes).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $41.50. 

OK - Maybe a little stubborn here, or maybe the fact that I was getting 3-1 on my turn call - Not sure which. I know this was a mistake, but was it a BIG mistake?

HAND #4

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

BB ($43.50)
UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($41.05)
Gomez22 ($49.35)
MP2 ($15.50)
MP3 ($41.80)
CO ($52.15)
Button ($56.35)
SB ($62.65)

Preflop: Gomez22 is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, Gomez22 raises to $3, MP2 folds, MP3 (poster) folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $2.50.

Flop: ($7.75) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Gomez22 bets $8.5, UTG+1 calls $8.50.

Turn: ($24.75) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Gomez22 checks.

River: ($24.75) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Gomez22 bets $37.85 (All-In), UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: $62.60
Main Pot: $24.75, won by Gomez22.
Pot 2: $37.85, overbet by Gomez22.

Results in white below: 
Gomez22 shows Ks Ac (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Gomez22 wins $62.60. 

I was triyng to induce a call and make it look like I was buying the pot on the river, but I guess I overdid it, right?

HAND #5

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

MP2 ($44)
MP3 ($8)
CO ($33.10)
Gomez22 ($61.40)
SB ($14.50)
BB ($41.30)
UTG ($38.70)
UTG+1 ($51.40)
UTG+2 ($66.75)
MP1 ($59.90)

Preflop: Gomez22 is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.50, Gomez22 calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets $0.5, CO calls $0.50, Gomez22 raises to $7, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 calls $6.50.

Turn: ($24) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP2 checks, Gomez22 bets $37, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $61
Main Pot: $24, won by Gomez22.
Pot 2: $37, between CO and Gomez22. > Split: CO ($18.50), Gomez22 ($18.50).

Results in white below: 
Gomez22 doesn't show.
CO doesn't show.
Outcome: Gomez22 wins $42.50. CO wins $18.50. 

Another one of those instances where I pushed too hard, right? I pumped it to $7 on the flop to try and destroy any flush draws.

HAND #6

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

UTG+2 ($49)
MP1 ($8)
MP2 ($16.10)
Gomez22 ($70.60)
CO ($12)
Button ($40.55)
SB ($37.70)
BB ($51.40)
UTG ($83.80)
UTG+1 ($59.90)

Preflop: Gomez22 is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 folds, Gomez22 calls $0.50, CO folds, Button calls $0.50, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($3.25) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
BB bets $3.25, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Gomez22 calls $3.25, Button folds.

Turn: ($9.75) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $9.75, Gomez22 calls $9.75.

River: ($29.25) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Gomez22 bets $12, BB calls $12.

Final Pot: $53.25
Main Pot: $53.25, between Gomez22 and BB. > Pot won by Gomez22 ($53.25).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 2c Kh (two pair, kings and twos).
Gomez22 shows Qc Jc (straight, king high).
Outcome: Gomez22 wins $53.25. 

OK - More of a sensible river bet here, right? Was the flop call OK? With no flush possible on the turn, I felt the only thing to hurt me would be the board pairing. I just wonder now if I could have gotten more for my hand on the river.....

HAND #7

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

CO ($15.90)
Button ($25.80)
SB ($104.25)
BB ($42.20)
Gomez22 ($70.60)
UTG+1 ($56.70)
MP1 ($48.40)
MP2 ($29.25)
MP3 ($85.40)

Preflop: Gomez22 is UTG with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Gomez22 calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Gomez22 checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets $3, MP3 folds, SB folds, BB folds, Gomez22 calls $3, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($9) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Gomez22 checks, MP2 bets $9, Gomez22 calls $9.

River: ($27) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Gomez22 bets $5, MP2 calls $5.

Final Pot: $37
Main Pot: $37, between Gomez22 and MP2. > Pot won by Gomez22 ($37).

Results in white below: 
Gomez22 shows Ks Qs (flush, king high).
MP2 shows 8c 9d (three of a kind, nines).
Outcome: Gomez22 wins $37. 

OK - I'm not sure whether I like this or hate it. I called the pot-sized flop bet with 2nd nut flush draw. I improved on the turn, but I don't know how much... Is he betting a 9 or the 4. More than likely, to bet the turn, it's a 9, but I have lots of outs here. Now..... I think I messed up betting small on the river, but it was painfully obvious what I was drawing to. Just can't be sure that I played this in a any sensible way whatsoever. I only made the $5 river bet because of the paired board.....

So.... there are the hands worth mentioning that I played this afternoon... FOr those of you that have been hammering it into my head to make big bets, thank you... it sure paid off today. I know it won't all the time, but I had fun, won $80 between 2 tables in a little over an hour, and did it only seeing an average of 16% of flops total.....

Thoughts here?

SpaceAce

03-15-2004, 07:45 PM

Hand #1:
Wel, you certainly didn't make any wimpy bets, here. It takes nerve to bet out like that twice with nothing but Ace-high. Pick your spots for doing that, though. Since you know your opponent to be a flush chaser, this is not a bad place for pushing your Ace-high as long as he is capable of laying down a pair of sevens or whatever he might happen to hit while chasing his flush.

Hand #2:
Since your opponent only has $5 more than the bet you plan to make, go ahead and bet for his whole stack. If he has an Ace or a draw he will almost certainly call.

Hand #3:
I prefer to raise about 10x the big blind pre-flop. You might fold everyone out this time but in the long run you will get called a lot. Since your opponents really want to see flops, make them pay to do it when you have big hands. Not everyone will agree but I really like to make a big raise in these games. This applies even more when you are so badly out of position. I bet this flop, too, but unless you plan to check-fold, do not check the turn.

Hand #4:
I would keep the fancy stuff to a minimum and bet the turn.

Hand #5:
You did exactly the right thing on the flop; you made the heart draw pay a lot to see another card. I think you overdid it on the turn. Now you've got a full house and the flush draw does not scare you. Yes, someone could make a better full house but you are almost certainly a huge favorite right now. Try to get a heart chaser to call you down.
^^^^ Reread hand #5, I think there is another bug in the converter.

Hand #6:
Depending on my opponent, the texture of the game and some other intangible factors, I may raise the turn, bet about 1/2 the pot on the river or do both. Otherwise, I like your play.

Hand #7: Eh, I don't care for the call on the flop. I would probably raise here to see where I am. If he comes back over me for a pile of money, I lay it down. Don't forget, you're not even drawing to the nut flush. On the turn, I would probably have bet out. You just called on the flop so you don't really know if your opponent has a nine. Your bet on the river was way, way, way too weak. I think you can get more out of a nine or any real hand that your opponent played the way he did. My thinking may not be in line with the conventional wisdom, here, so let's see what other people say about this hand.

Overall, your betting in these hands is a massive improvement over the way you played many of the other hands you've posted.

SpaceAce

Gomez22

03-15-2004, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer to raise about 10x the big blind pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

A question regarding this - I've been told by many around here to make your PF raises the same amount times the big blind ($3.00 = 6x $.50 BB, $6.00 = 6x $1.00 BB). That being said, don't you WANT dominated and less than stellar hands to call you? In the hand you reference this to, I had KK and raise to $3.00, which was 6 times the big blind. In these situations, aren't you more likely to get called with better hands than if you were raising a smaller amount?

For example, let's say it's a $1.00 BB NLHE game, and you have AA from CO and first in, you raise to $10.00. In this case, don't you think everyone and their brother will fold? The only action you stand to get here are from mid to high PP's..... However, if you raise a smaller amount... say $6.00, I think it would be more tempting for someone with a hand like KQ to call here.

I guess what I'm asking is this: Does raising 10xBB PF kill alot of your action with your monster hands? I'm not saying you want the whole table calling you, but does it make it harder for you to reap with big hands? I can understand that it may make post flop play easier, but are the effects worth the risk?

SpaceAce

03-15-2004, 08:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That being said, don't you WANT dominated and less than stellar hands to call you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and in these games they will. That's sort of my whole point. AK, QQ and JJ aren't going anywhere for 10x the big blind in these games.

[ QUOTE ]
For example, let's say it's a $1.00 BB NLHE game, and you have AA from CO and first in, you raise to $10.00. In this case, don't you think everyone and their brother will fold? The only action you stand to get here are from mid to high PP's..... However, if you raise a smaller amount... say $6.00, I think it would be more tempting for someone with a hand like KQ to call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

For one thing, 10x the big blind is only $5 at a $.25/$.50 table. $10 would be 20x the big blind. Also, smaller pocket pairs are exactly what you want calling you. You'd be thrilled if JJ called your KK raise every time.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess what I'm asking is this: Does raising 10xBB PF kill alot of your action with your monster hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because I also raise to 10x the big blinds with AKo, AKs, AQo, AQs, JJ and 27o. If anything, this constant pounding will get you even more calls from crummy hands who are sick of being pushed around.

SpaceAce

cornell2005

03-15-2004, 08:20 PM

well it depends on the game i think. 10x the BB in a 2 dollar BB game is 20 dollars. thats way too much, you will never get called unless your dominated. i raise all my raises 8 or 10, so thats 4 or 5 times BB, depending on the game. in the .50 games i would try 3 dollar base raise and see how that worked.

good job btw, i liked most of your hands. ill throw in some comments later when i have a bit of time

SpaceAce

03-15-2004, 08:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well it depends on the game i think. 10x the BB in a 2 dollar BB game is 20 dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is absolutely no way to make a comparison between a $20 bet at a $1/$2 game and a $5 bet at the $.50 tables. You will get called by all kinds of random crap including QJ, KJ, 78s and so on. Yes, you will fold everyone out sometimes but you will get more than enough calls to make it worthwhile. In my experience, it's not even close. You will make tons of money because not only will trash hands call your big raise, they will stick around after the flop with things like bottom pair and unlikely draws because they feel too invested in the pot to let go.

SpaceAce

eggzz

03-16-2004, 12:12 AM

Hand number one certainly is a bit ballsy, but since you covered yourself by your copious note taking, then I would have likely done the same thing.

I liked the way you played all other hands. Particularly interested in your flop percentage.

I have been working on being more and more patient at the tables, and really watching my flop percentages. I think my attention span wanes a little bit after a few hours of play. Do you also find that to be the case?

I am a pretty patient guy, but I guess after 2-3 hours of waiting and waiting, I find myself up a bit, and then I get sloppy, start calling in the SB when I shouldn't, then it gets raised by the BB to double the bet, and I call it, only to muck that garbage on the flop.

I think I know the answer to this, but can I ask some of the more disciplined players (that are long term winners) their opinion on flop %?

Those of you that are successful, are you normally seeing that percentage of flops that Gomez reports on this last outing of his? Or do you mix it up a lot, so sometimes you will win by seeing 15%, and some sessions you see 35% and wind up ahead?

I know there is more to my question than just a yes or no answer, but figuratively speaking, without being overly predictable to my opponents, should I really work on tightening up my pre-flop selection hands, and then pound them for the most part when I come in?

Gomez, you in the Cleveland area by the way?

Gomez22

03-16-2004, 12:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think my attention span wanes a little bit after a few hours of play. Do you also find that to be the case?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of my sessions are in the 1-3 hour range, and since I started playing NL, it's a little less, maybe 1 hour tops for the most part, as I still have alot to learn; in limit, however, I was normally playing 3-5 hour sessions.

[ QUOTE ]
I am a pretty patient guy, but I guess after 2-3 hours of waiting and waiting, I find myself up a bit, and then I get sloppy, start calling in the SB when I shouldn't, then it gets raised by the BB to double the bet, and I call it, only to muck that garbage on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Used to be the same here... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Gomez, you in the Cleveland area by the way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehehe... saw that you're from Medina. Sorry, but no. I'm in Zanesville. Maybe 2 or 2 and a half hours from Cleveland.... 45 miles east of Columbus. Nice to see another Ohioan here, though.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

'Mez

cornell2005

03-16-2004, 12:42 AM

are you agreeing with me or no? i cant quite tell but im assuming we are saying the same thing

i was only disagreeing with your statment that 10xBB is a good base raise for all games.

i dont have any expeience in the .50 or UB games, so youll just have to find the best number and stick with it

SpaceAce

03-16-2004, 06:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
are you agreeing with me or no? i cant quite tell but im assuming we are saying the same thing

i was only disagreeing with your statment that 10xBB is a good base raise for all games.

i dont have any expeience in the .50 or UB games, so youll just have to find the best number and stick with it

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that 10x the big blind is not the appropriate raise in all no limit games but I think it is appropriate in almost all of the online $.50 big blind games I have played.

SpaceAce