dumb river raise?

[schwza]

2/4 at party, 10-handed. table is standard party - loose and passive. I don't have a good read on SB.

I'm in cutoff with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Two middle position limpers to me, I raise, SB 3-bets, BB folds, and limpers (and me) call. (Should I have capped?)

13 sb in pot, 4 players.

Flop is 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB bets, both limpers fold, I call.

7.5 BB, 2 players

Turn is T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)

SB bets, I call.

9.5 BB, 2 players.

River is my 4th spade: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif(T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)

SB bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I kick myself and call.

Comments appreciated on all rounds.

(He turned over A /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[onegymrat]

Hi Schwza,

This is the classic AK debate. I'm sure you'll find plenty of posts in the archives regarding this situation, where the flop misses you completely. Since this has been talked about so numerously, you are not getting much response. Here's my take on it anyway.

The two most profitable options in your position is to either raise or fold to the flop bet. Capping the action preflop is close, since you have position. This will also help you read SB. Reason to fold to SB's bet: He's a tough player and usually has the goods. Cut your losses, you're way behind. Reason to raise SB's bet: He's a weak player and overplays his hands. The raise may give you a free river card also. Do you see why?

Given that he had the nut draw, I don't think you could have chased him out of the pot. In hindsight, a raise on the flop would have definitely bought you the river card for free. Raise = one half bet saved. Worry about the next hand. Good luck.

[Trix]

If he has any clue about what a steal raise is, then cap.
Are you saying you dont like the river raise cuz he might hold A /images/graemlins/spade.gif ? You wont be ahead here more than 67% of the time ?

[Joe Tall]

Sometimes I cap w/AKo, sometimes I don't as it depends on the the preflop-3-better and number of my opponents, in addition to how bad the limpers play.

I'd raise the flop once it gets heads up between you and the limper and take a free card if check to on the turn unimproved.

The raise on the river is fine you'll be ahead here more than not w/2nd nut.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall