View Full Version : Having a hard time laying down my high pocket pairs twice
Brian
03-15-2004, 12:16 PM
Party 5/10 ring. Both hands take place at the same table, and the table is loose and moderately aggressive.
Hand #1: I am dealt Q /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif in EP and raise. MP and Button cold-call, SB folds, BB calls. 4 to the Flop, 4bb.
Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB checks, I bet, everyone calls. 4 to the Turn, 6bb.
Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB checks, I bet, only Button calls. 2 to the River, 8bb.
River: 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
I bet, Button raises, I call.
Hand #2: I am dealt K /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the SB. MP opens with a raise, it's folded to me and I re-raise, BB folds, and MP calls. 2 to the Flop, 3.5bb.
Flop: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif
I bet, MP calls. 2 to the River, 4.5bb.
Turn: A /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I bet, MP raises. Your move?
Results later.
-Brian
I call in hand 1 and fold on hand 2.
novamob
03-15-2004, 12:43 PM
I agree. You know you are beat in hand 1, but you have to call at that point IMO. (Unless you think he may be on a bluff, than reraise his ass).
What could he have in hand 2 that he would cap with? AA (probably), AKs, QQ, or JJ (very unlikey), KK (very very unlikely).
I think one of the hardest things to do is give up the ghost when you have a monster pre-flop that turns into a dog once the board is out.
Brian
03-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Hi novamob,
[ QUOTE ]
but you have to call at that point IMO. (Unless you think he may be on a bluff, than reraise his ass).
[/ QUOTE ]
If I think he is on a bluff, then calling is the correct play.
[ QUOTE ]
What could he have in hand 2 that he would cap with?
[/ QUOTE ]
He didn't cap pre-Flop.
-Brian
Solitare
03-15-2004, 02:05 PM
Why bet the river in hand 1? Seems it is all too likely for the BB to be holding the small cards that could make the straight or 2-pair he is representing. If he is just holding a small pair, why didn't he raise earlier? Seems to me that a check-call is called for.
Brian
03-15-2004, 02:33 PM
Hand #1: I called and was shown 33.
Hand #2: I am still not sure what the correct play on this one is. I think it is more player dependent and perhaps table image-dependent, but I get pushed around an awful lot at 5/10, so I decided to call down. He had AJo.
-Brian
Dynasty
03-15-2004, 06:32 PM
Showing down your big pocket pairs on dangerous boards is hardly a significant leak. Don't worry about it.
chesspain
03-15-2004, 06:39 PM
I agree completely with this.
JARID
03-15-2004, 06:48 PM
Brian,
I feel your pain, it sucks for these type of hands to go belly up. However, there are few things you might want to consider.
Hand #1:
Why in the world would you bet that river? This falls under the "only gonna get called/raised if your beat category". Unless he was calling you down with top pair or something, he is clearly on a draw and the 5 clearly helps the draws. Save yourself a bet, take a check down, or check and call behind.
Hand #2:
Lets face it, you are probably beat here too. I'm sure he will show you a monster starting hand of the A10 off variety, but it could be A2 and you're still toast. Maybe he flopped a set. Although, you did indicate the table was aggressive, so if he is one of the aggressive ones and perhaps prone to bluffing you could call down.
Hope that helps-
~J
Nate tha' Great
03-15-2004, 06:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Showing down your big pocket pairs on dangerous boards is hardly a significant leak. Don't worry about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
There, I'm glad that somebody else said that.
I show down a lot in heads up situations. A *lot*. I know that it's supposed to be bad poker to do this. That it's supposed to be a leak. The thing is, I don't sense that it's costing me a lot of chips. It might well be making me chips. I'm usually getting pretty good odds on my calldowns, and I catch a lot of bluffs, and failed semibluffs. I deter people from making plays at me going forward. And I learn a lot about what hands people are playing and how they are playing them, which I think is worth quite a bit. This is an information game.
I'm not saying that I'd never lay down a hand such as in case #2. I'm not saying that I never call down out of frustration, which certainly is a leak. But I think the *default* play *should* be to call down when it's heads up, and you hold a strong hand ... I remain skeptical about my opponents until they prove they deserve otherwise.
My long-term showdowns won % is right about at 50%, and I think that's just where it should be.
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