Is this cheating/

[jwvdcw]

4 players left in a tourney that pays the top 3. I'm shortstacked. UTG average stack limps, I go all in with pocket 10s. My all in was just a little more than the blinds so both the BB, who was the big stack, and limper call. BB then writes in the chat window, 'lets do this the right way.' They then proceed to check the entire way.

I hit my 10s for trips. The limper rivered a straight with his J-Q. I never saw what the BB had. I am sure that the limper would've folded after the flop if the BB bet because the flop brought K-x-x, so obviously he would want no part of the big stack with only J-Q. Afterwards, the BB types in, 'good job.'

Now I have no idea if the BB had any hand at all. Moreover, I realize that it is smart strategy to not bet when someone is all in. However I have a major problem with the BB verbally suggesting it out loud. I reported it to Partypoker in the hopes of getting a refund for the tourney. Am I being over-sensitive here or do I have a legit beef/

[CrackerZack]

While saying something borderlines on collusion, the BB likely wouldn't have bet at any point to KO the QJ guy.

[jwvdcw]

And I guess more importantly....do you all think PP will refund my 215 dollars/ I'll post results when I get them.

[CrackerZack]

unlikely, but its worth a try. write an outraged letter about collusion, etc.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
unlikely, but its worth a try. write an outraged letter about collusion, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats pretty much what I did...I even suggested that they should give me some of the prize money since 'I probably would've won with my 3 10s if the hand was played normally and finished in the money.' /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[blackaces13]

I do not think this falls under the category of either cheating or collusion. I'm sorry as I seem to always be more liberal about these matters than most, I don't even think announcing or talking about your cards during a hand is such a bad thing either if you're trying to mess with player's heads.

How far can we carry this line of what is and is not cheating. If you played live and the same thing happened but the BB leaned back in his chair after the flop and said, "checking sounds good by me fellas" and then laughed is this cheating too?

IMO unless you're talking about a players previous plays and their style or talking about things like a possible double-gut shot or a pair on board cancelling out a previous 2-pair or something else that may be hard to read on the board, it ain't cheating.

[Daliman]

nah, no beef. Most good players check down unless they pretty much have the nuts anyways, and if the other person wasn't a good player, he wouldn't have understood. Now, If the BB said" I have a KIng" when the flop came, then checks, that's a problem,(sorta). Either way, he didn't and you lost in the end. Happens.

[TheGrifter]

Yes, and I'm shocked that nobody here sees that this is CLEAR cheating. You CANNOT suggest in ANY way to another player involved in a hand with you how to play when a 3rd player is all in. It is blatant, ignorant, horrible behavior. Is it cheating, YES!

Also, railbirds at a final table that doesn't have ob. chat turned off, please stop commenting on the hands in play. Saying "call him, call him" or "looks like aces", might not seem wrong to you, but it can change the way a person plays his cards. When I make a final table I like to be able to chat with the rail and comments like this ruin it for everyone.

You people who act like asses at the rail online would never get away with it in a traditional casino, so stop ruining it for the rest of us.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, and I'm shocked that nobody here sees that this is CLEAR cheating. You CANNOT suggest in ANY way to another player involved in a hand with you how to play when a 3rd player is all in. It is blatant, ignorant, horrible behavior. Is it cheating, YES!

Also, railbirds at a final table that doesn't have ob. chat turned off, please stop commenting on the hands in play. Saying "call him, call him" or "looks like aces", might not seem wrong to you, but it can change the way a person plays his cards. When I make a final table I like to be able to chat with the rail and comments like this ruin it for everyone.

You people who act like asses at the rail online would never get away with it in a traditional casino, so stop ruining it for the rest of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I got one person backing me at least /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Still no word from partypoker if I'm getting my money back.

[zamora]

i agree with TheGrifter.
even though any thinking player would check this hand down, this is not ok behaviour from the bb.
You should be compensated in some way or bb should at least be reprimanded.

[morgant]

yes, that is a prime example of collusion, regardless if the players intuitively knew to check it down or not. or if one or the other had a hand that he would only check it with. one is telling the other what they should do to maximize their profitability at that respective time, UB would give you your money for this, i dont have experience with party support and from what i hear, i like to keep it that way.

ps, grift, the online rail chatters have never seen a final table and live vicariously by making the call him comments, i agree it irritates the poo outta me.

[happyjaypee]

From the Partypoker.com page:

[ QUOTE ]
You can think or say things, just don't type them.


[/ QUOTE ]


However, this is not officially in the rule. It's on the poker etiquette (http://www.partypoker.com/games/how_to_play/poker_etiquette.html) page

- I think checking it down was the right move for them
- I think suggesting to chk it down is immoral, and should be illegal
- I think, due to it beeing "etiquette" and not a "rule", you are sadly not going to win vs Party there.


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Daliman]

P.S. before you all condemn the play, remember, ALL he said was " let's do this the right way" and gave no other strategy info. Again, if he said, "lets check this down", that's collusion. If i said to someone at the beginning a a tournament table, " let's knock TJ out of the tournament", while maybe unethical and stupid, it's NOT collusion.

[ZManODS]

I believe this is just smart poker played by your oppenents. I know at least when a player is in the hand to check it down (unless i know im a sure win). He didnt even explicitly say to check it down, Seems like they were going to do it anyway.

As far as getting your money back, good luck but i dont see it coming.

[jwvdcw]

still no reply from partypoker..man, their service has gotten worse and worse. If they're not going to have live help, at least they could respond to your emails in a few hours or so instead of a day or more.

[Slacker13]

Yes, this is most definately collusion, if this happened in a B&M you would be penalized if in a tournament. Card Player magazine had an article by ? Jan Fisher? touching this very topic.

[Daliman]

For saying, " let's do this the right WAY?" No chance.

[Toro]

Definitely cheating imo but don't call it collusion. To collude you need two people working together and there's no evidence that the other player played the hand differently than he would have if not prompted.

Experienced players know they shouldn't bluff at a dry side pot and it's likely that he was going to check it down regardless.

So keep pressing for a remedy but don't make the mistake of calling it collusion.