Playing AK

[theBruiser500]

So, looking through my pokertracker statistics (I have 12,000 hands) and I see this...

Aces are my biggest winner with $1800
AQs i'm up $600
AQo i'm up $400
KQs i'm up $400
Ako i'm up $130

I'm DOWN $500 with AKs
DOWN $520 with KQo

the KQ thing is just an aside, not really the point of my post but it's interesting.

I think I'm playing my AK wrong somehow, this is how I normally play it... Bring it in for a raise from any position and then if there is just one caller I'll bet 80% of the pot on the flop almost always, if he calls I check/fold. If I hit the flop and I was the preflop raiser a lot of the time I'll just check the flop because I figure, if it comes AT2, what could they have?? So I check, maybe this is my problem? If the flop is like AQ2, or A9T I'll bet that flop, and if it's suited I'll bet the flop most of the time too. Then I'll bet the turn and maybe river and generally go pretty far with my hand.

If someone else raises preflop I just call and give the hand up unless I hit, if I hit top pair after they raised and I called then I'd raise the flop or checkraise if they had position. And bet it pretty strongly from there...

Also, when Brunson said that AK was his favorite hand, not aces, what was he talking about? At first I thought he was on to something great and when my friends criticized him for this, I thought they were too small minded to see what he was talking about, but now I don't understand Brunson. I've read his reasons for it many times and in theory they sound good, but don't work for me in practice. It seems like AK is a trap hand to me, when I'm playing my pocket pairs this is what I want my opponent to have so I can break them...

danny

[1800GAMBLER]

Sample size.

Suited cards are 3 times rarer than off suited. If you want to make analyse group the type of hands using the filter.

[theBruiser500]

Hm, I asked Daryn if I could filter it so suited and unsuited were treated as the same hand and he said no, how do I do that? I bought pokertracker but still haven't used it, don't really know how to work it.

Still though, I think I'm doing something wrong with my AK. I've gotten AKo 120 times, and AKs 45 times and when I group them together I'm still down money. My biggest money makers are AA KK QQ JJ TT (and interestingly hands you all shun AQ and AT). I've gotten all those big pocket pairs 50 - 60 times and they're all at the top of my list like they should be. I've played AK four times as often and I'm still down with it so either it's variance is hugely higher, or I'm playing it wrong (pretty sure it's the latter).

danny

[theBruiser500]

I was thinking about it, and I clarified my thoughts a little bit. If you have AK, who is going to pay you off? If the flop is A T 2, you have the ace so what could they have?

With a hand like 77 or JQ or 76 or AA it's easy... Flops like A72, JQ4, 589, and KT2 respectively, it's easy to see who is going to pay you off, I just don't see it for AK.

[Jman]

I've always had trouble with AK's as well. They either win really small pots when I hit TPTK and none of the callers of my preflop raise hit a set, 2P(or a flush or str8 draw).
Or they do hit something so that when I defend it with pot-sized bets on flop and turn i lose my stack as they smoothcall away... go figure.

[1800GAMBLER]

You set AKo and AKs together as you have. With such a small sample size you are better grouping all AKo AKs AQo AQs together. You'll be up for the group and unless you are playing AKs totally different from the other 3 then it's just a stats anomaly.

You honestly don't even have enough hands to be confident in your win rate over 12k hands, nevermind a win rate over ~350 hands when analysing AK.

To your other question there's 2 other aces left. AQ AJ A,stoopid T,X JQs with backdoor draw, i don't know players find all kinds of crazy crap to pay me off with. AK doesn't lose big pots and win small ones anymore, AJ does.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

if there is just one caller I'll bet 80% of the pot on the flop almost always


[/ QUOTE ]

What do you bet when you hit top pair? Or when you have an overpair?

I think betting "almost always" is a mistake. I am trying to think what game theory would suggest for betting frequency, but my drunken brain won't let me. Zag used to say bet half the time when you miss with AK. He was probably right.

Guy.

[1800GAMBLER]

Game theory is really tough to work out with AK postflop when you miss because sometimes you are leading, sometimes you'll be called when ahead and sometimes you'll improve to the best hand.

But here's the optimal bluffing workings:

If you always bet:

He's getting 2:1 on his call. It's 2:1 you have a made hand. So by always calling he'll make a profit.

Zaq's 50% over 3 hands:

1 You hit and Bet.
1 You miss and check.
1 You miss and Bet.

So 50% of the time you bet you are bluffing. So if he always calls you, once he loses $10 onces he wins $10. For the breakeven play.

I think you should bet more than 50% though because of the reasons above.

[cornell2005]

its my opinion that when you were first in to raise preflop, and its heads up, and you are first to act, thats it best to bet pot almost everytime in games like NL100.

my reasoning is as follows: (largely game dependent)

in NL100, ive found that the callers i have gotten have flopped top pair. or to flip it around, im not getting many callers post flop that havnt had top pair or second pair. of course this the crucial assumption about your game and the player

the players havnt been able to see that im playing AK this way usually. going to showdown with this strategy is very rare compared to going to showdown with my other preflop raises, so its reasonable to guess im on pockets. of course if they suspect im playing AK this way, then its pointless

so seeing that im only really getting calls when they hit the flop, mathematically you make money. first, you can decently assume you arnt against KK or AA without knowing it. if you are first in to raise preflop, a good portion will reraise you back. so potential hands are QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, JK, QK, 10A, ect, including alot of crap hands. dont feel like doing the math, but if it holds up that people wotn call your pot bet without hitting something, its profit in the long run.

even if they call, you get at least one card to try to get back ahead. and when you hit this card, and they havnt raised anywhere, more often than not you jumped ahead of them.

playing from behind is a different matter imo

im sure this isnt the optimal way to play it in all situations, but stats have said its a decent way in the games i play

and of course you wouldnt bet everytime, depending on the board, ect

[C M Burns]

I think the main thing to remeber w/ AK is that most of the time when you hit you only have 1 pair, often this will be the best hand but if someone comes back at you in nl, they can usually beat top pair. and of course how deep the money is is important, if it is shallow then you are best to just play fast w/ top pair, and hope for the best, deeper money generally you will need much more than 1 pair.

Also Brunson, doesn't say it's his favorite hand but preffers it to AA, mainly b/c you can get away from it easier, when it doesn't hit, also when you hit top pair w/ ak there are only 2 cards for others to use whereas w/ AA there are 3, and he is also talking mainly about deep money games.