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View Full Version : Lower Back Tattoos On Women


Bill Murphy
03-13-2004, 01:43 AM
Mentioned by JV & J A Sucker in a thread on the Gossip Forum.

IMO, LBTOW's are played out like the jheri curl & ready to die, /images/graemlins/smirk.gif and I've had two for almost twenty years, and woulda got a lot more if I'd had enough cash at the wrong time.

Seen a hottie leaning across the dice table the other day. About a foot of blank LB skin exposed; made even better compared to the jailhouse scratch LBT's on the two big biker mamas next to her.

Now, girls' pierced nips, OTOH, is like trees to branches, and cliffs to avalanches... /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Blank is the crank. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

PuppetMaster
03-13-2004, 08:08 AM
its like [censored] an art museum.

Word.

Vegas whores are the best.

Bill Murphy
03-13-2004, 03:09 PM

Al_Capone_Junior
03-13-2004, 06:53 PM
Personally, I like tattoos on women. One of my ex girlfriends recently got a lower back tattoo, and I like it. There's one hottie in san diego whom I have a major lust for that has six tattoos (well, she is a tattoo artist) and she's HOTT-HOTT-HOTT!!!! I am probably going to get a second one myself, or elaborate on my ace of spades tattoo with some flames or something! Well maybe not flames, but I was considering /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif all the way around underneath the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif as a band.

al

bernie
03-14-2004, 02:36 AM

theBruiser500
03-14-2004, 12:20 PM
I don't like tatoos and I don't understand why a person would pierce themselves in places other than the ear. Frankly, tongue and belly button piercings make me queasy.

Clarkmeister
03-14-2004, 12:23 PM
I am like way in favor of chicks with tribal tatoos on their lower back. Uber sexy.

youtalkfunny
03-14-2004, 02:03 PM
When I see a beautiful woman, it is an enjoyable experience. Just LOOKING at her. Every time, I'll stop what I'm doing, forget about what I'm thinking, and just gawk. Sometimes I'm successful in concealing the fact that I'm gawking, but usually I'm not.

One of the great pleasures in life, is just LOOKING at a beautiful woman. I hear birds singing, ans sweet music playing.

But if I see a tattoo on that beautiful woman, the sweet music quickly becomes garbled, like when the cassette player starts eating the tape. The birds singing becomes crows screeching.

A tattoo on a beautiful woman is like grafitti on the Mona Lisa. You just can't believe that something that lovely was defaced for no good reason, and ruined forever.

My little girls are 7 and 5 years old. Should one of them ever get a tattoo, I'm sure that I will weep about it for weeks.

Tattoos are on my long list of things in life (along with visible, grotesque piercings; diplaying the Confederate flag; smoking; racist comments; pausing to use the word "like" several times per sentence; illegal drug use; losing control at a sporting event; I could go on and on) that I interpret as an announcement to the world that, "I'm dumb as hell!"

spamuell
03-14-2004, 02:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Tattoos are on my long list of things in life (along with visible, grotesque piercings; diplaying the Confederate flag; smoking; racist comments; pausing to use the word "like" several times per sentence; illegal drug use; losing control at a sporting event; I could go on and on) that I interpret as an announcement to the world that, "I'm dumb as hell!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you seriously never done any of these things?

ZeeJustin
03-14-2004, 03:53 PM
You have some major issues. It's one thing saying, "I don't see how those things are enjoyable.", but to outright dismiss them as acts of stupidity is just a very ignorant thing to do.

Also, your post is somewhat hypocritical, and I'm sure if we examined your personal life, it would be far more hypocritical.

[ QUOTE ]
diplaying the Confederate flag

[/ QUOTE ]
The confederate flag is the flag of the southern states. By displaying this flag, a person is by no means advocating slavery. They are merely showing pride for the south.
[ QUOTE ]
racist comments

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it is very racist to be against having pride for southern states.

Now that I think about it, your entire post is full of prejudice.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-14-2004, 04:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Tattoos are on my long list of things in life (along with visible, grotesque piercings; diplaying the Confederate flag; smoking; racist comments; pausing to use the word "like" several times per sentence; illegal drug use; losing control at a sporting event; I could go on and on) that I interpret as an announcement to the world that, "I'm dumb as hell!"

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. I'll give you the the racist one. But other than that...

You need to lighten the FK up. Life is really much better WITHOUT the corncob up your butt. Grouping tattoos or drug use with racism and the confederate flag is simply ridiculous, your blood pressure is WAY too high.

al

Clarkmeister
03-14-2004, 04:30 PM
The confederate flag is not the flag of the southern states. It is the symbol of a shameful time in their history and should be treated as such.

bernie
03-14-2004, 04:34 PM
I agree.

However, in a way, that flag means the same to some people, primarily black, as the US flag means to the indians.

b

Al_Capone_Junior
03-14-2004, 04:38 PM
no arguement here about the confed flag. When I see people flying it, I think "idiot."

al

ZeeJustin
03-14-2004, 05:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The confederate flag is not the flag of the southern states. It is the symbol of a shameful time in their history and should be treated as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't aimed directly at you, but I think it needs to be said. The civil war was about preserving the union, not about slavery. The southerners weren't fighting because they wanted to own some n***ers. They were fighting because the Yankees were attacking them on their home soil. They believed they were a seperate nation at the start of the war. They had their own government and everything.

I find it interesting that you dictate what a flag represents while you believe the people that put the flag up aren't qualified to tell you what it represents. This is the average American perspective on life. Go through a southern state, tell someone with a confederate flag that they are pro-slavery, and see what kind of response you get. They will be the ones calling you a racist.

Clarkmeister
03-14-2004, 05:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I find it interesting that you dictate what a flag represents while you believe the people that put the flag up aren't qualified to tell you what it represents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sincerely doubt that anyone who put up the flag is still alive.

The fight to preserve the union was a result of the slavery issue. Its easy to say the war was about preserving the union, but if there hadn't been a slavery issue, there would have been no worries about the union breaking.

And just because they "believed they were separate and even had their own government" doesn't make it so. That might be the silliest argument of all time.

"Go through a southern state, tell someone with a confederate flag that they are pro-slavery, and see what kind of response you get."

Who cares? Just another example of people locked in the past who don't even know why other than daddy teaching them to be bitter.

Clarkmeister
03-14-2004, 05:41 PM
That said, I'd bet even southerners think its sexy for women to have those tribal tatoos on their lower backs! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Al_Capone_Junior
03-14-2004, 05:46 PM
Maybe.

But I have NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE met someone who flew a confederate flag who ...

A) had all their teeth
B) did NOT have a STUPID southern "drawl"
C) who was NOT an ignorant SOB
D) who I was really glad to have as a part of the human race, due to their superior intelligence and respectability

I don't care who this opinion offends.

al

Al_Capone_Junior
03-14-2004, 05:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That said, I'd bet even southerners think its sexy for women to have those tribal tatoos on their lower backs!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. More proof of the stupidity of the average southerner. Thank the poker gods I was born in new york. Having ever spent even one day in the south was A) a mistake, and B) an accident beyond my doing.

al

HDPM
03-14-2004, 06:22 PM
OK, a totally hot chick from Alabama picks you up. She smokes winstons because they sponsored NASCAR and she likes to get totally out of control at the NASCAR infield parties. She likes smoking weed grown out in the hills. She wants you to do her from behind and you see a confederate flag lower back tattoo as she gets out of her oh so tight jeans. I don't know about you, but my political hang ups are not the main concern at that point. Could you hit it? If not, I worry about you. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

ZeeJustin
03-14-2004, 06:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The fight to preserve the union was a result of the slavery issue. Its easy to say the war was about preserving the union, but if there hadn't been a slavery issue, there would have been no worries about the union breaking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lincoln created the war. Lincoln didn't want to abolish slavery until 1864-65, well after the war was underway.

[ QUOTE ]
And just because they "believed they were separate and even had their own government" doesn't make it so. That might be the silliest argument of all time.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about this argument: They had their own economy, their own factories, their own foreign affilitians, and were independant in just about every way imaginable. The only reason we don't consider it to have been an independant country was because Lincoln refused to admit that his country had fallen apart.

[ QUOTE ]
Who cares? Just another example of people locked in the past who don't even know why other than daddy teaching them to be bitter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised a seemingly intelligent person like yourself could say something so presumptious, so ignorant, so prejudice, with out even a miniscule amount of logic or reason present to back any of it up.

For the record, I have spent most of my life in VA, about 10 miles from DC. Whenever anyone asks me where I'm from, I say DC just to avoid southern affiliation. Next fall, I'm moving "up north" and have no intentions of spending my life in any southern state other than the possibility of California. If you choose to believe this, I think it is clear that I have no pro-south bias.

ZeeJustin
03-14-2004, 06:47 PM
To clear something up: saying the Civil War was about slavery is the equivelent of saying the American Revolution was about tax evasion.

Porcupine
03-14-2004, 10:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, LBTOW's are played out like the jheri curl & ready to die, <snip>

Seen a hottie leaning across the dice table the other day. About a foot of blank LB skin exposed; made even better compared to the jailhouse scratch LBT's on the two big biker mamas next to her.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sincerely hope you are correct that the LBTs are played out. I have a theory that at some point (if we aren't there already) that those w/o tats will be rare enough that they will be viewed as the "cool rebellious ones".

There is the "silver lining" you alluded to - when you see someone attractive and then shortly after see the (now) treasured beautiful blank LB skin.

As far as nipple piercings, we'll just have to disagree.

youtalkfunny said it well:

A tattoo on a beautiful woman is like grafitti on the Mona Lisa. You just can't believe that something that lovely was defaced for no good reason, and ruined forever. <font color="#666666"> </font>

Clarkmeister
03-14-2004, 10:33 PM
There is no rational reason for anyone alive today in the southern states to be even slightly bitter against the northern states. None. They live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. Opportunity, freedom, wealth and security in unparalleled quantities. Yet this bitterness undeniably still exists. I'll leave it for others to elaborate, but there are some pretty obvious and unflattering reasons why.

youtalkfunny
03-15-2004, 04:04 AM
Have you seriously never done any of these things?

I tried smoking. I tried illegal drugs. I used racist comments when I was young. And lots of other dumb things. I matured, and stopped doing these things.

I'm not perfect. I'm obese, and I'm still eating fast food regularly. That's dumb, period.

But I don't BOAST about my mental weakness. I'm rather ashamed of it. Most of the things on that list are ANNOUNCEMENTS.

LOOK AT MY FLAG! I PUT IT UP IN MY FRONT YARD! IT PRETTY MUCH MEANS, "I HATE NIGGERS" BUT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THAT WORD ANY MORE, SO I FLY THE COLORS INSTEAD!

HEY! LOOK AT THE WAY I MARKED UP MY TITS!

ATTENTION EVERYONE! BEFORE I SMOKE THESE CIGARETTES, I'M GOING TO SPEND A MINUTE SMACKING THE PACK REPEATEDLY ON THE HEEL OF MY HAND! LISTEN TO THIS! COME ON, LISTEN, I WANT ATTENTION! AND WHILE YOU'RE LISTENING, LOOK AT THE COOL JACKET I GOT FROM THE TOBACCO COMPANY BY SAVING MY "MARLBORO MILES"! IT HAS THE MARLBORO LOGO! LOOK AT THE LOGO! LOOK AT ME!

I see that logo on merchandise, and I think it should be replaced by the words, "Lung Cancer Club".

Again, I have my faults. I just don't dress in loud, colorful shirts that say "Big Dogs" on them.

You need to lighten the FK up. Life is really much better WITHOUT the corncob up your butt...You have some major issues...

No, just minor ones. These things don't consume me. I see a tat, I think, "Dumb". I don't launch into a speech every time. Just one time. Here. Didn't know I'd open such a can of worms.

OK, a totally hot chick from Alabama picks you up. She smokes winstons because they sponsored NASCAR and she likes to get totally out of control at the NASCAR infield parties. She likes smoking weed grown out in the hills. She wants you to do her from behind and you see a confederate flag lower back tattoo as she gets out of her oh so tight jeans...Could you hit it?

Hit it? Absolutely!

Take it home to meet Mom? Not a chance in hell! I don't care if she's a Rhodes Scholar, she's a dope!

baggins
03-15-2004, 04:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
To clear something up: saying the Civil War was about slavery is the equivelent of saying the American Revolution was about tax evasion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't it, though?

I think lower back tattoos on women are not morally wrong, not necessarily ugly, and don't reflect ignorance or stupidity. i simply don't like them, and I think they're too trendy. the reflect herd-mentality more than ignorance.

tattoos in general, however, can be pretty dang beautiful. I know a girl who has some really impressive tattoos on her biceps. one is a reproduction of a painting by Gustav Klimt, and the other by Mucha. both are extremely well done, in good taste, and beautiful. If I ever decide on a design, I think I'd get a tattoo.

call it a difference of opinion, that's fine. but don't say that tattoos automatically make the bearer ignorant...

baggins
03-15-2004, 06:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
ATTENTION EVERYONE! BEFORE I SMOKE THESE CIGARETTES, I'M GOING TO SPEND A MINUTE SMACKING THE PACK REPEATEDLY ON THE HEEL OF MY HAND! LISTEN TO THIS! COME ON, LISTEN, I WANT ATTENTION! AND WHILE YOU'RE LISTENING, LOOK AT THE COOL JACKET I GOT FROM THE TOBACCO COMPANY BY SAVING MY "MARLBORO MILES"! IT HAS THE MARLBORO LOGO! LOOK AT THE LOGO! LOOK AT ME!

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, hitting a pack of cigarettes against the palm of your hand is done for a reason: to pack the tobacco tighter in the cigarette, thereby causing the cigarette to burn slower and more intense.

Amanjyaku
03-15-2004, 07:15 AM
Well, actually it's done to keep the tobacco in your Luckies from getting stuck in your teeth. I think the habit persists in filter smokers as an affectation; but what do I know, a tight roll never did anything to stop the seed holes from sprouting in my polyester shirts.

Ulysses
03-15-2004, 08:28 AM
http://customtattoos.net/Celia805.jpg

http://customtattoos.net/lindaO30.jpg

http://customtattoos.net/lisa7.jpg

http://customtattoos.net/patti3.jpg

http://customtattoos.net/janine57.jpg

Al_Capone_Junior
03-15-2004, 08:51 AM
YUM!

al /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Al_Capone_Junior
03-15-2004, 08:54 AM
there's at least one credible theory that the mona lisa was a self-portraint.

You remember who painted it, right? the guy? a man?

Also, I think you are overestimating by a long shot the # of women who actually have tattoos.

al

Al_Capone_Junior
03-15-2004, 09:04 AM
so you'd DO the tattooed pot smoking confederate flag flying marlboro girl, but wouldn't take her home to momma. And nothing about this seems hypocritical to you.

And you see a tattoo and you think "dumb." Well I guess when me and my ex (both whom have college degrees, a BS+some grad work for me and a masters for her), you'll just think dumb. And my friend who's a professor of english at SDSU, well she's dumb too. Too many tats. Oh yea, and the one with the PhD and four tats. Dumb. OK. Got it! Just clarifying your position!

al

theBruiser500
03-15-2004, 09:26 AM
Another thing I find unattractive is too much make up.

Rushmore
03-15-2004, 10:03 AM
Being heterosexual as I am, a tattoo cannot turn an otherwise attractive woman unattractive to me.

That said, what IS ugly is the mob mentality aspect of the thing. This whole "See how rebellious I am because I got this dumb tattoo that the television told me makes me a rebel" instantly turns the woman into a moron to me, and therefore, into nothing more than a potential sexual object.

The same applies, to some degree or another, to tongue piercings, eyebrow piercings, and, strangely enough, breast implants.

I remember back in the day, where if a woman had a tattoo (or whatnot), you could rest assured it meant she had the sufficient intellect (or at LEAST personality) to:

a. Be an interesting person.
b. Want to distance herself from the herd.
c. Be a good, uh, partner.

Alas, those days are gone.

theBruiser500
03-15-2004, 11:18 AM
I like to have sex with dogs.

scotnt73
03-15-2004, 02:26 PM
tongue piercings on women really get me going for some reason. i guess i associate it with oral sex. i had an ex girlfriend that i broke up with who was great in bed but a lousy person to be around if we werent partying/drunk. about a month after we broke up she got her tongue pierced and suddenly i wanted to get with her again badly. so i did and it was AWESOME but i had to be with her for another couple of months after so i wouldnt feel like a jerk. so i paid for it.
My wife wants a tatoo and i dont want her to get one even though i have 2 because i dont like tatoos on women personally. it doesnt disgust me but id rather her not. she has a belly button ring that i like very much.

i was with a woman once who had her youknowwhat /images/graemlins/grin.gif pierced and i didnt care for it at all.

theBruiser500
03-15-2004, 03:11 PM
Hm, interesting. I didn't write that last post.

youtalkfunny
03-15-2004, 03:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
so you'd DO the tattooed pot smoking confederate flag flying marlboro girl, but wouldn't take her home to momma. And nothing about this seems hypocritical to you.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course not. I'm a GUY. I've had sex with women, with whom I would never consider getting involved. You haven't?

[ QUOTE ]
...And my friend who's a professor of english at SDSU, well she's dumb too. Too many tats. Oh yea, and the one with the PhD and four tats. Dumb. OK. Got it! Just clarifying your position!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that sums it up.

My IQ has been clocked at about 160. But my weight is almost double that. This morning, I had a chicken omelette with cheese, home fries, and biscuits.

I see a guy who can't fit in the restaurant's booth ordering a breakfast like that, and I think, "Dumb."

I can't help it. I'm a POKER PLAYER. I like to think I'm smart, and that's a lot easier if I label everyone else as "dumb".

"He called three bets cold with Q7? That's just dumb!"

Like I said, I've got a long list. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gamblor
03-15-2004, 03:42 PM
As long as the table is flat.

and I never have to see 'em.

and I can slap 'em right off.

Gamblor
03-15-2004, 03:46 PM
I think it is very racist to be against having pride for southern states.

Excuse me? The population of the southern states is now a "race"?

Gamblor
03-15-2004, 03:52 PM
Just another example of people locked in the past who don't even know why other than daddy teaching them to be bitter.

Why Terrorism exists.

baggins
03-15-2004, 04:29 PM
exactly.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-15-2004, 05:41 PM
Just to sum it up for you...

none of my tattooed friends are overweight. And none of them would quickly conclude your stupidity if they saw that you were overweight. I am not overweight. I do not automatically conclude stupidity based on anything, not even a cowboy hat (tho that's a toughie, the VAST majority of them wind up being stupider than horse [censored]).

al

youtalkfunny
03-16-2004, 04:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
actually, hitting a pack of cigarettes against the palm of your hand is done for a reason: to pack the tobacco tighter in the cigarette, thereby causing the cigarette to burn slower and more intense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doing this 4-6 times will accomplish what you say.

Doing this 20-30 times will accomplish what I say ("LOOK AT ME!!!").

I never see anyone do it 4-6 times.

J_V
03-16-2004, 06:11 AM
Just cuz someone thinks something doesn't mean they are right. I see J_V an I think best card player on the planet. Oh wait..bad example, that's true.

Yes, if you have a tatoo I have no choice but to play the math and say you are less intelligent than a non-tatooed person. You are the one misunderstanding probability w/ yoru argument.

ArchAngel71857
03-16-2004, 10:55 AM
These are called doggystyle tattoos. The only time you will see them are when you are doing a girl doggystyle. then it helps to have a novel or a Buddhist inscription (think Angelina Jolie) to read and pass the time while you slam it home. I like all the ones that are some chinese inscription. If I was a tatoo artist, i would just make it chinese for "do me" every time.

-AA

baggins
03-16-2004, 11:47 AM
I do it 4-6 times. also, doing it more packs it in pretty tight. you're not a smoker, so obviously us smokers who have experience know what we're talking about. I pack my cigarettes in my car or in another place where nobody is around, 99% of the time.

i think you may just have a need to invent ways in which you are superior to those around you...

Gamblor
03-16-2004, 12:04 PM
I don't smoke cigarettes, but if I did, I'd pack em 50 times just to annoy youtalkfunny.

Then I'd take a long drag and blow it in his face, hacking and vomiting all over his shirt.

Who gives a shit? Honestly.

Bill Murphy
03-16-2004, 10:36 PM
You see them all the time w/the lowrider jeans &amp; cropped tops girls wear these days(not that there's anything wrong w/them)

My main probs w/LBTOWs are: Bad ones; and ~every~ girl having them.

GWB
03-16-2004, 10:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
These are called doggystyle tattoos. The only time you will see them are when you are doing a girl doggystyle. then it helps to have a novel or a Buddhist inscription (think Angelina Jolie) to read and pass the time while you slam it home. I like all the ones that are some chinese inscription. If I was a tatoo artist, i would just make it chinese for "do me" every time.

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you dare come close to my twin daughters, or I'll sic Johnny Ashcroft on you.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-16-2004, 10:49 PM
i didn't misunderstand the arguement, I just disagreed with the premis used to make the conclusion.

My examples are far from that needed to make a statistically valid sample. However, as a rule I have NOT found tattooed people to be generally dumber, rather perhaps the contrary is more likely. Again, this is personal experience, not hardcore fact. I concede his/anyone's personal experience may be different. But pure theory is not always the basis of arguements that are at least partially based in emotion and personal beliefs. Anyone who's AGAINST tattoos is already one card short of a full deck in my book. I have never once regretted getting mine, and in fact want another or an add-on to the one I have.

al

JTrout
03-17-2004, 02:05 AM
no arguement here about the confed flag. When I see people flying it, I think "idiot."

And when I see someone with tattoos, I think, " Idiot."

We all come from different places, and have different perspectives.

I was born in Oxford, MS. My dad is a graduate of Ole Miss. I'm a graduate of Ole Miss. Growing up, the confederate flag- to me- represented "Ole Miss Rebels". Archie Manning, Charlie Connerly, Jake Gibbs, Donnie Kessinger.

Of course, as I grew older, I realized that it had a different meaning. Hatred. Racism. Ignorance.

But just because some of you BELIEVE that everyone who has flown a confederate flag is full of hatred and ignorance, does not make it so.

Just because you BELIEVE that people who speak with a southern drawl are toothless, uneducated idiots, does not make it so. (Ole Miss has had 24 Rhodes Scholars. How many had U. of Illinois had?)

We all are prejudice, to some extent. We are all full of faults. We are all born disadvantaged to some degree.

I know Mississippians that hate blacks.
And I know New Yorkers that hate Jews.
And Texans that hate Mexicans.
And North Dakotans that hate Native Americans.

The measure of a man is not his heritage, or birthplace.
Which side of the Mason-Dixon line one is born has nothing to do with his intelligence, or tolerance.

There are just as many idiots in Yankee hats as cowboy hats.
Just as many women with back tattoos and cigerettes in Colorado as Alabama.
And just as many racist bigots north of the Mason-Dixon as south.

bugstud
03-17-2004, 03:10 AM
I think Rhodes Scholars may not be the best determination of aptitude, but I don't disagree with the point. THere are clueless, ignorant people everywhere. The south is "lucky" enough to have a symbol for most of them.

J_V
03-17-2004, 04:16 AM
Obviously, you are not familiar w/ the Princeton Review Study in the Harplinger's Journal Feb 2001. It conclusively shows tatooed people to be 10 IQ below average.

Al_Capone_Junior
03-17-2004, 09:40 AM
all i can say is that there's a stat to prove everything and anything you want if you look hard enough.

al