Question for thoose with pokertracker!

[MrFroggyX]

I think i found out a big leak in my NL poker game!
I't seems like I overvalue a pair in holdem and don't fold when im beaten.

Check out these stats:
<font color="blue"> Total 7,503 hands NL Tourneys $30+3/$50+$5
</font>

Hand Rank ...... Total hands .... Tournament chips won

<font color="red"> High Card ........... 106 ............. -50,402.00
One Pair ............ 323 ............. -43223.00</font>
<font color="green">Two Pair ............ 222 ............. 56805.00
Three Of A Kind .... 68 .............. 43553.00
Straight ............... 46 .............. 32147.00
Flush ................... 26 .............. 17148.00
Full House ............ 23 .............. 20971.00
Four Of A Kind ........ 6 ............... 4456.00
Straight Flush ........ 1 ............... 2040.00

Total: ................. 821 ............. 83,495.00 </font>


And i have started log my hands for my NL ring game also.. it is a very small sample but they tend to be like my Tourney stats:

<font color="blue"> Total 1,209 hands NL cash game NL $25/$50
</font>

Hand Rank ...... Total hands .... Amount won

<font color="red"> High Card ............. 2 ............ -$22.05
One Pair .............. 31 ........... -$109.38</font>
<font color="green"> Two Pair .............. 22 ........... $105.80
Three Of A Kind .... 5 ............. $31.55
Straight ................ 4 ............. $49.05
Full House ............ 6 ............. $8.97

Total.................... 70 ............. $63,94</font>


Is this normal??? I don't think so.. To me it seems like i don't fold enough on the river when im beaten? Or what do you thinks?

How thoose your stats look like?

I guess you don't loose money on a pair? Am i right?

-Nic.

[Gomez22]

I'll give my stats for NL games, although most of my play is at UB, and I have no history for that... this is just Empire($.50 BB), Paradise($.50 BB), and Stars($.02 BB).

Hand Rank.....Total Hands.....Amount Won
High Card........78............($77.80)
One Pair........181.............$92.61
Two Pair.........90............($50.48)
3 of a kind......23.............$24.19
Straight.........14.............$61.44
Flush............13.............$63.25
Full House........9.............$64.68

TOTALS..........410............$177.88

I'm up about $300 at UB so far this month, although I'm not sure if that's 600 BB in NL, or 300..... jsut for info purposes. I personally find the UB games more beatable and a touch easier (maybe easier to read than Party and Paradise games).

Pokertracker has me at 5.45 BB/hour in NL play at Empire &amp; Paradise, and 12.18 BB/hour with Stars $.01/$.02 hands thrown in. Tracker lists BB/Hour as 2x the big blind in these games, for what it's worth.

These stats come from 2342 hands (1694 of them being Empire/Paradise, the other 650 at Stars mini tables).

[Redmen62]

I'm also down with high card and one pair through 9k hands. To me, my "high card " loss is a product of two things:

First and primarily, times when I get all-in with AK, don't improve and lose to pocket pair.

And second, there's probably some busted-draw bluffs that got called in there too.

Bottom line, no-pair's going to be a loser when it's shown down.

One pair I think is a leak in my game (I overplay my big pairs), although I wouldn't be surprised if it was an overall loser for most players in Short-stack games.

Any other PT users want to weigh in here?

[1800GAMBLER]

10k ring games.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> hand_rank_desc total_hands amt_won sd_win_pct
High Card 33 -574.55 3.3333
One Pair 131 140.15 40.1575
Two Pair 95 253 54.2553
Three Of A Kind 33 1260.84 72.7273
Straight 26 454.46 76.9231
Flush 19 1235.13 94.7368
Full House 12 542.45 75
Royal Flush 1 17.25 0
</pre><hr />

Is there an easier way to copy this data without exporting a file?

[MrFroggyX]

Ok this is intresting!

Both Jay and Gomez make money on there pairs! I lose money on my pair (and redman).
And after have read Gomez hand historys i know he plays very tight with his pairs after the flop. And often fold top pair with a weak kicker if there are a small rasie infront off him. I on the other hand usually calls if the rasie is small.

Gomez make money on pairs.
I lose money on pairs.

That says quite a bit. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well i know what i have to practice now! Fold, Fold, Fold and not to overplay the pairs.

And Jay, i don't think there are another way than export the data... Atleast i can't figure it out. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyone else that want to share there stats for there final hand summary?

-Nic

[cornell2005]

not sure if it will help, but here are mine

out of 800 hands that went to showdown

high card -110.80
one pair 150.92
two pair 1309.74
three of a kind 738.80
straight 289.40
flush 204.78
full house 756.40

[1800GAMBLER]

Click the line and search through your hands. Could be any of the following:

Too many river bets.
Too little value river bets.
Over aggressive play on any street.
Keeping people honest.
Playing X,t X,j too much.

[Redmen62]

Alright, right about now I'm questioning my big pair play even further... I know that overplaying JJ-AA is a leak in my game, but I believed it was a product of the Party system to a certain extent (with short money, it's easy to get all-in when someone flops a set to your overpair).

I'm only very slightly down with one pair, and I'm under 10k hands, but it's still ugly.

[1800GAMBLER]

Overplaying my preflop raise hands was one of the biggest leaks in my game on party. When most player players raise postflop they have at least two pair the only exception being with the tiny stacks who are usually on a death wish.

But if you are losing money on these hands you must have more than this one leak with them because if you raise them preflop on party and you do go against a better hand even then you only lost a very small amount over the hand. I know i lost a lot with AQ AJ JJ when i raise them preflop and a dominating hand they hold plays very passively, so that maybe your other leak.

[Redmen62]

[ QUOTE ]

But if you are losing money on these hands you must have more than this one leak with them because if you raise them preflop on party and you do go against a better hand even then you only lost a very small amount over the hand. I know i lost a lot with AQ AJ JJ when i raise them preflop and a dominating hand they hold plays very passively, so that maybe your other leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not completely sure this response was for me, Jay!, but I'll respond like it was. Let me clarify, I am currently down about $86 with one pair over 9200 hands at Party, a figure distorted somewhat by my ill-fated trip to $100 tables, where I lost $250 with KK vs AA in less than 50 hands.

Still a leak, yes, but there's no question that's affecting the numbers. If you were under the impression that I was losing money with individual big pairs, let me assure you that is not the case. My $/hand list is in more or less expected order- AA/QQ/KK etc., and I am up with every PP except 55 and 22, and I'm down a combined $16 with those two.

So big pairs are performing well, (and they should) but I'm down slightly on one pair at showdown. I know there's a leak there, but as I alluded to before, it has something to do with the way I play my big pairs and how it interacts with the Party structure.

I am open for any comments/criticisms on this subject, since I have identified it as a problem area, but am unsure exactly how to clean it up.

[Jman]

Here's my stats so far: NL25

hand_rank_desc total_hands amt_won
<font color="red">High Card .....59..... -86.4
One Pair.....308..... -42.12</font>
Two Pair.....252..... 528.18
Three Of A Kind.....78..... 683.54
Straight.....49.....390.73
Flush.....46..... 491.88
Full House.....55..... 832.85
Four Of A Kind.....5..... 151.6

Looks like I'm down on single pairs and high cards as well.

[1800GAMBLER]

I think we are crossing wires here.

I thought the 'One Pair' stat is when you have one pair on the river, not the stats for a single pocket pair. Your post seems to talk only about pocket pairs and including 22 55, when 22 and 55 are making money they are making money for the 3 of a kind group. One pair would be over pairs and A,x K,x Q,x etc.

[MrFroggyX]

Ok good news!
I have played a few hours today and i think i have perhaps shutdown my leak..! (Yes i know it is a very small sample but i think the trend looks good)

<font color="blue">Total 576 hands NL cash game NL $25/$50 </font>

Hand rank..... Total hands ..... Amount won

<font color="red"> High Card........... 3 ................ -1.50</font>
<font color="green"> One Pair............ 11 ................ 25.90
Two Pair............ 12 ................ 37.85
Three Of A Kind... 1 ................ 32.05
Straight.............. 5 ................ 29.36</font>
<font color="red"> Flush................... 1 ................ -25.00</font>
<font color="green"> Full House........... 3 ................ 96.47

Total................... 36 ............ $195.13</font>


I think my leak was a combination off things that jay said and a few others. I will post them here, perhaps someone else can benefit from my mistakes: /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Leak 1:
Too many river bets with marginal pair hands. Either i have top pair and a weak kicker or middle pair with top kicker.

Leak 2: (This my main leak.. lots off $$$ thrown away)
Over aggressive play on any street. Especially if i was the pre flop rasier. And if had top pair with top kicker i really overvalue it even if someone rerasied me. I still would go down to the river.

Leak 3:
To many attempts to bluff at the river when i have a low pair or some other marginal hand. Often i have gone all-in on the most stupid hands beacuse I hope I can get the other players to fold there hands. This is very stupid lots off $$$$ vanish for me.. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Leak 4:
Playing X,t X,j too much. This is not a so big leak by itself. But it often leads me to do the other leaks (1 &amp; 3)

Leak 5:
Overall i overvalue a pair in holdem. It's only a pair even if you have a great kicker. I will try to be more cautios with it in the future.

I am very happy to have found out this and really belives i will be a much better poker player in the future!

And i want to take some times to thank you all that have responded to this post and in particulary Jay beacuse i really started to think about my game when he started this post: Finding Leaks: Pass on 100 hand histories to another player (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=571120&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=) and also Gomez for taking the time to read my hand historys and point out about my pre flop game! Thanks! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

-Nic

[Redmen62]

Jay!:

The language of the post I quoted was what was confusing me. We are on the same page.