Just Lost 11 in a row at $100 tables

[La Brujita]

Not looking for anything other than a pat on the back because I feel terrible.

Funny thing is (i) I don't think I made any mistakes* in the 11 tourneys and (ii) I didn't suffer that many outdraws.

*Everyone makes small mistakes in almost every game but when I think of mistakes I think of the few plays you wish you could take back because they were clearly wrong.

[CrisBrown]

Hi La Brujita,

Well, you hardly need me to say this after what I've written all week, but, swings do happen, and they happen to everyone, no matter how well you play. If there are poker gods, they don't hate you, and they're not out to get you. You didn't accidentally pee in the dealer's cornflakes, and the universe hasn't decided to park its garbage truck over your computer. You lost some card games. That's all that happened, and try not to let it be more than that, because it won't make things better for you.

All of that having been said, if you don't think you've been getting bad beats, and you don't think you've been making too many mistakes, have you any idea exactly what's happening? Missing on the coin-flips? Too many second-best hands? Just flat cards?

I sometimes ask myself these questions, not because I expect the same trend to continue, but so I can think about how to limit my exposure to those inevitable events. If I see I'm missing a lot of coin flips that are costing me in tournaments, then I start asking myself whether and how I can avoid getting into quite so many coin-flip showdowns. If I'm getting crushed on second-best hands, I ask myself how I can read them better, and limit my exposure when I'm on a very good but vulnerable hand. If I'm getting cold-decked, I ask myself how I can manufacture some pots with marginal hands while I'm waiting for a big hand.

Obviously, no matter what you do, you're going to have the swings. But to the extent that you can look at the kinds of situations that are beating you and think about ways to limit or overcome them, obviously you're getting ahead of the power curve.

Regardless, please don't take this as a criticism of your play. I'm just trying to offer some encouragement, and some sympathy, during a trying period.

Cris

[La Brujita]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It was many things, I got bad cards, people kept turning up monsters on me and I kept losing coin flips.

Basically this is how I lost (if not the final hands the hands that crippled me):

1. Overpair lost to underpair all in (bad beat)
2. K high flush losing to A high flush (nothing much to do)
3. Trips over trips when short stacked, outkicked
4. Trips over trips when opponent filled up (I had him outkicked-this was my worst play of all the games)
5. Called with 10-8s, flop came 9h qs Jc I called. Turn brought another spade and I raised all in and lost to K-T.
6. Got short stacked and lost KJclubs to red fives. If there is a closer coin flip in poker than this I can't think of it off the top of my head (other than AA v AA etc.)

pokenum -h kc jc - - 5s 5h
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kc Jc 851243 49.71 852112 49.76 8949 0.52 0.500
5s 5h 852112 49.76 851243 49.71 8949 0.52 0.500

7. Blinds got big and pushed in with K-9 offsuit and lost to the small blind's cowboys five handed from the button.
8. Got short stacked and called a mini raise with 7-9 offsuit in the bb against the loose crazy player. Flopped a pair and open ender and he turned up cowboys.
9. Four handed had been playing tight and flopped a medium flush draw and a pair on a board with three hearts and pushed all in after sb checked. He turned over 3-4 hearts.
10-11. Just didn't get cards.

The majority of hands above I was the dog but not much I could do. I guess that is life but I don't know how I would have played any differently other than my mistake with trips, moderate kicker.

Tomorrow is another day I guess.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

Tomorrow is another day I guess.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now an important question: just emotional damage, or fear for your bankroll after 11 blanks? Be honest...

eastbay

[La Brujita]

Actually, I feel fine already emotionally. I don't think I played that badly and I can deal with it. Six months ago when I lost alot I would feel bloody awful.

Bankroll is strong enough to take this swings. If the 11 in a row turns to 22 in a row you may see me at the $5 tables or worse yet begging at Pokerstars.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I feel fine already emotionally. I don't think I played that badly and I can deal with it. Six months ago when I lost alot I would feel bloody awful.

Bankroll is strong enough to take this swings. If the 11 in a row turns to 22 in a row you may see me at the $5 tables or worse yet begging at Pokerstars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coolio. Carry on then...

Actually I suggest the $33 tables for an ego and bankroll boost if you're in need of either.

eastbay

[jerome baker]

why not the 55's?

[CrisBrown]

Hi La Brujita,

I've looked at your list of crippling hands, and I think the first three were pretty much unavoidable, although I'd love to hear what your kicker was on hand #3. As for the hand #4, you said it was a mistake, but didn't elaborate, and I'll take your word for it that you've sussed it out.

Hand #5 -- where you bet the low end of the straight and someone had the nut straight -- is a mistake we've all made at least once. My personal rule is that if I've caught the sucker straight, I'm going to treat it like a bluff-catcher hand. I'll beat many of the hands that would bet into me cautiously (two pair, a set, etc.), but if someone comes at me hard, I'm going to give them credit for the nut straight and lay the hand down.

With the remaining hands, the common theme is "I got short stacked," and that might be a clue. Obviously, we're all going to end up short stacked sometimes. However, when it happens a bunch of times in a row like, especially after a player has just taken a bunch of beats, it makes me wonder whether perhaps the player has tilted a little too tight.

I don't know if this is what happened with you, and if it's not, I apologize. I certainly don't want to offend you, or make you feel any worse than you already do.

But this is a common response when a good player hits a bad run -- a weak player will usually go wild -- and when a player gets consistently short stacked and forced to make desperation plays at the bubble, that's often diagnostic of playing too tight.

If you have PokerTracker, you might go to the Preferences tab and set the filter for just that one day's play. Then go back and look at those stats, and compare them to your overall stats. Is your $VIP significantly less? Are there any other significant statistical differences in your play?

Also, look at your hands dealt that day. This is something I both love and loathe about PokerTracker, because it is so brutally, mechanically honest. I think I've caught a truly trashy run of cards for two days, and then I check my hands dealt on PokerTracker, and dammit, they're pretty much what I could expect. Yes, there'll be some deviations because it's a small sample size, but on the whole, I usually find I've been getting about the same range of hands I do on my good days. I love that, because it shows me I'm not really getting unlucky. I loathe it, because it blows up one of my (and I think everyone's) mental excuses.

Now, it's entirely possible that you will find that your stats are about the same as always, and you caught a terrible run of cards that day. Chaos theory predicts this will happen from time to time. If so, then this was merely a tough day, and you'll have more good days than tough days because you're a strong enough player to win with "average" cards. (I know, because I've played with you.)

But if you do see a difference -- especially in those last six games -- that's something to take a look at, and a way to improve your already strong game. There's no reason to feel bad about getting a little gunshy after you've taken a lot of beats in a row. It's a very common, very human way to respond. If that's what happened, and you see it, then you can try to discipline yourself to return to your usual, confident, aggressive game.

If you find you can't -- and I know I can't when it piles up enough -- then you might take a couple of days off to kinda let those negative feelings go away. My mental image for this is recognizing those feelings, tying them up in a sack, and throwing them in the ocean. And while I may have identified them, and thrown them away, I may still need to sit by the shore for a few minutes and let the tide carry them out over the horizon. Then they're really gone, and I can return to whatever activity I was doing with some confidence.

Anyway, I've rambled on enough, and again, if I've said anything that made you feel worse, or that came off as patronizing or condescending or whatever, I apologize. I certainly don't want to do that. You're a very strong player, and you know you're going to win that money back ... with interest. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cris

[La Brujita]

Cris,

This was a very good post. My trips getting beat was a holding of AJ when A-9 suited caught a 9. From the texture of the betting I felt I was probably beat but it stuck to my hands.

When I hold the low end of the straight (eg 56 on a board of 789) I will play it pretty cautiously but when I hold 10-8 on the board of 9-Q-J I am going to play pretty quick. Only one holding beats me K-10 and you just can't always fear the nuts. I also had a four flush with two four flushes out; there were a huge number of two pair, set or drawing hands out there. There were four limpers pre flop and a mid sized bet on the flop. The turn brought another mid sized bet so I tried to take it down there. Also, there were only three tens in the deck so I took my chances.

As for the playing too tight, it is something I am worrying about right now. I didn't play any more tightly then I normally do but maybe I need to loosen up a bit. One good poster has suggested I loosen up a bit early. But on the other hand, many times I was short stacked because my opponents kept turning up monsters.

That being said, in the midst of losing I didn't want to start tinkering with what has always been effective for me; I felt that might be a disaster.

Jerome, to answer your question, as a personal preference I prefer to play either the 100's or multiple 30 games because I don't love the fish/shark ratio in the 50's.

Just as a final thought, after you have played many of these tournaments you often just leave thinking this one wasn't very winnable. For me these are less painful than the tough bubble losses. Many of these games seemed just not winnable.

Regards

[William]

Hi LB,

Just read your post. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
I'm sorry you're having a hard time. Step down a level for a couple of days, maybe take a day off. Just don't play if you feel everything goes wrong, because when you are in that mood, it usually does.

Good luck, and keep us informed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

William

[La Brujita]

I dropped down to the $30 games, and I am just getting hammered. This time it is all bad beats. When it rains it pours I guess.

The one lesson I learned a while ago (the hard way) is when you have lost a ton you can't try to win it back, you just need to play your game.

But this is getting absolutely ridiculous. I have a policy of going to two dimes and replaying my big hands and I also check out the PP replayer so I am not just having cloudy thoughts. I think it might be time to take a couple of days and play solitare.

[William]

Take a day or two off, those streaks of bad beats are devastating, I know, but you're right about not trying to win it back, that's like going on tilt.

don't lose faith, it's one long game...

William

[CrisBrown]

Hi LaBrujita,

Try some ring game play. That's what I did today, after losing another two SNGs. I figured I'd sit in at $2/4 NL ring, hang around for a little while, and see how it went. Less than four hours later, I left with over $1400 in profit, making up my losses for the week ... plus. Yes, I got lucky, a little. But also, it was just a change of pace and there was less pressure than tournament play, as the blinds were stable, and the fishing was good.

Cris