BB raising - 3/6 Party

[anduril]

ok 6 different players at my table tonight have raised preflop from the BB with no less than 4 other people already in the pot and not a single one of them has won that respective hand. Someone please tell me the benefit of raising from the BB with at least 4 other players already in the pot at this level. Is there +EV in raising with any particular hand?

[Ed Miller]

Do you think raising with Aces is -EV?

[anduril]

sorry I forgot to add "besides AA, KK, occasionally QQ"

[The Bear]

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sorry I forgot to add "besides AA, KK, occasionally QQ"

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There is quite a bit to say on this topic. Do a search of the archives. I'll get you started. http://tinyurl.com/2re8v

[bdk3clash]

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Someone please tell me the benefit of raising from the BB with at least 4 other players already in the pot at this level.

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Because doing so makes me more money than not raising. If you don't raise your big hands (other than AA, KK, and QQ) in the blinds, you'll still make money with them--you'll just make less with them than I do. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

A common misconception among low-limit players seems to be that you raise with big hands to knock other players out, and if you can't knock them out, what's the point of raising?

The truth is, if you raise with a big hand and an opponent folds, that's good. The likelihood of you winning the pot just went up.

If they call your raise, that's also good. They likelihood of you winning the pot went down (though not proportionately so, since they probably have less pot-equity than you), but the extra money they've put in the pot makes up for it.

From the blinds, I open-raise with pretty much the same hands I open-raise with in other positions, with a few exceptions, such as KQo. I also 3-bet with most of the same hands I 3-bet with in the other positions. Ditto for capping.

If you aren't raising from the blinds at the low limits, you're just leaving money on the table.

Also, it's just plain fun to punish the goddamn limpers, especially when playing live. You know that feeling you get when you limp in late position with a hand, and you think you're in the clear, and then one of the blinds raises?

I like making people feel that way.

[bisonbison]

Must be more aggressive preflop.

I am writing Clarkmeister's post on my hand. Raising virtually all the time from the blinds:

AA-TT
AKs-ATs
AKo-AQo
KQs-KJs

[winky51]

Interesting post. I usually find that not raising is more profitable, but I do raise occasionally and usually only into a small group, 1-2 other players. Having AK, AA, KK, or QQ rasing in the the BB gives your opponents information to your hand. Most will assume AA, KK, or QQ. if a high card flops they all fold and you generally collect 1 BB each.

When I just call with such hands the other players will usually call me to the river. At one point, flop or turn I raise the pot, usually turn and the callers more than compensate for the lack of PF raise with the double cost bet.

Sometimes I like to raise with suited connectors with many people in the pot because everyone will call. Then they misread your hand and if you make your flush/straight you win a lot more.

[bdk3clash]

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Interesting post. I usually find that not raising is more profitable...

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I seriously doubt this. I set up a PokerTracker filter for AA, AKs, AKo, KK, and QQ from the blinds. I pretty much always open-raise (and 3-bet) with these hands.

I have about 50,000 hands in my database, mostly at Party $1/2 and $2/4.

Here are the results in terms of average BB won per hand:

AA : +2.41
AKs: +0.86
AKo: +1.21
KK : +2.95
QQ : +1.05
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AVG: +1.64 BB/hand

Though you gain some value in disguising your hand if you don't raise, you won't gain enough value to make up for all the bets you are missing preflop if you aren't raising with these hands.

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Having AK, AA, KK, or QQ rasing in the the BB gives your opponents information to your hand. Most will assume AA, KK, or QQ.

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This just isn't true. Most players play their hands with little thought as to what their opponents might be holding. They'll notice you raised out of the blinds, but if they hit whatever piece of the board they feel is enough (bottom pair, gutshot, top pair weak kicker, etc.), they'll bet/call regardless of the pot size, whether you raised out of the blinds, whether you've folded for the last hour and now 3-bet from the SB, etc.

Low limit players want to call your raises. Let them.

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if a high card flops they all fold and you generally collect 1 BB each.

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What games are you playing in where this happens? I find it much more common to receive multi-way action when raising a premium hand out of the blinds, regardless of the flop.

As an aside, if this is really what is happening in a game, shouldn't you raise more hands out of the blinds, since your opponents seem so eager to fold if a "high card" comes on the flop?

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When I just call with such hands the other players will usually call me to the river.

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When I raise with such hands, the other players will usually call me to the river, too. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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At one point, flop or turn I raise the pot, usually turn and the callers more than compensate for the lack of PF raise with the double cost bet.

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Wait for the turn to raise with AA, KK, QQ? Right...it's usually a good idea to wait until you're least likely to be ahead in a hand to raise. Sheesh. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Sometimes I like to raise with suited connectors with many people in the pot because everyone will call. Then they misread your hand and if you make your flush/straight you win a lot more.

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If you see the value in raising suited connectors from the blinds, why can't you see the value of raising big hands from them? They stand a much better chance of winning unimproved, and when they flop big, they flop real big.

AA is a much better drawing hand than TJs, because it doesn't have to hit anything to win. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, I think you need to reevaluate your play of AA, KK, QQ, and AK from the blinds.