Simple AA party question

[1800GAMBLER]

Limpers, lots of limpers, I get AA, i raise 5 - 6 BBs, one caller.

Flop:

3 5 7 flush draw board.

I bet the pot and get min raised.

I can fold here right? Someone scream it.

[crockpot]

you can, but situations like this are why i like to know what a min-raise means from a certain player. here, depending on the guy, it could be a flush draw, a straight, a set, or a hand like 76. i don't put him on a total bluff, but whether you want to play against that spectrum of hands is up to you. if i did play, i would call the raise and move in on the turn if it looks harmless.

[1800GAMBLER]

I can't analyse what the min raise means from each player since i'm robbing 4 tables :/ In the hand i moved in, forgetting that rarely any players raise their draws, he shows the set.

I'm playing awful at party lately, i don't know if it's either a tilt, bad adjustments or because i'm missing out on some much information by playing so many tables.

[theBruiser500]

Did the guy who minraised you have position on you? If he checkraised I'd give him credit for a stronger hand, but if he minraised with position he could be doing it to get the turn for free or whatever.

Why would you play it that way Crockpot?

[crockpot]

somehow position slipped my mind when i posted, since there was no other action listed. i agree that a check-raise is a big power play and he is much more likely to be on a draw, so i would usually fold.

i think you answered your own question. if the guy is trying to get a free card with a draw, you want to play the hand in such a way that you can get away from your hand if his draw hits on the turn, and charge him the maximum if it doesn't. if you think he probably has a made hand, go ahead and fold here.

if the money is very deep, an all-in might be too big of a bet on the turn. but since jay plays mainly on party, i doubt this is the case.

[cornell2005]

i think if he min-raises you then call if its small enough and go into shutdown and hope for an A on turn.
on party i find min-raises in a situation like this usually = the person trying to milk a big made hand. set is the only hand i can possibly think of here. really there arnt any other legitamate possibilities
maybe you have been struggling lately becasue you lost alot of respect for party players. that happend to me about a week ago, i started assuming they were playing poorly too often. when i treated them with more respect i got back on track again

[theBruiser500]

[ QUOTE ]
i think you answered your own question. if the guy is trying to get a free card with a draw, you want to play the hand in such a way that you can get away from your hand if his draw hits on the turn, and charge him the maximum if it doesn't. if you think he probably has a made hand, go ahead and fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very clever.

[1800GAMBLER]

When i analyse hands of party poker players i forget the word 'position' because i truely believe it means nothing to them.

[theBruiser500]

Here's another question for you Crockpot. If I put my opponents on a draw then I'll just keep raising on the flop. In what situations should you raise on the flop, and when is it better to call on the flop and lead out on the turn?

danny

[theBruiser500]

[1800GAMBLER]

I'll answer then.

This breaks down into a few different types of players/hands.

Weak Player you _know_ has a flush draw

So you want money in to cause him a mistake and you want him to make the biggest mistake possible. So imagine the player is a loose awful player, you both have big stack sizes and the pot is small. This will be better to wait untill the turn. Example:

You and the other player have $200 and the pot is $20 and he has a flush draw and you have a made hand.

Option 1.

Bet all in. He calls. Getting 220:200, so his net loss is ~$60/hand.

Option 2.

You see the turn if it blanks you bet all in and he calls. So 1 in 5 times he wins $20 (the pot). Then of the remaining 4 hands you bet all in $200 and he calls again.

Total win:

0.2 * $20 = $4

0.8 * 0.2 * $220 = $35.2

Total loss:

0.8 * 0.8 * $200 = -$128

Net loss = -$88.8

So in this case even though sometimes you'll lose the pot on the turn it's still more profitable because of the deep stack sizes and his bad play, so in this case it's better to get in on the turn, yet this is a really unrealistic situation.

Realistic one

This takes up a huge amount of maths, but the reason for the play doesn't totally lie in the maths.

You'd make this play if you think the player could have a made hand but also could be betting a draw. So you call, then bet out incase he was making a free card play, then you've cost him his pointless bet on the flop and more on the turn. The benefit behind this play mostly lies in if he does have a made hand he'll raise and you can safely drop your hand.


As you move up stakes you'll see the reasons why you are making this play change. Lower stakes it's to max. the other players mistake. Higher stakes it's because the range of hands they could be betting is wider.