How Did I play this one?

[kingstalker]

Paradise 5+0
Blinds 100/200
I have 6200 in chips
I have /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gifK in the BB
3 limpers, I raise the pot which is about 1000
One caller,a big stack with about 7000 in chips
Flop is
/images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ
I bet the pot(3600) he calls
Turn /images/graemlins/club.gif5 Didnt like to see that card but I bet my last 1000 anyway
River /images/graemlins/heart.gif2
He has /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif8
Did I play this too aggresively on the flop? Was my opponet right to call on the flop?

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
How Did I play this one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Kingstalker - Are you playing Omaha-8 or Omaha-high-only?

In either event, a lot depends on your own playing style. More than one playing style works, but what works well for one playing style may not work well for another.

Without knowing more about how you play and thus how you're probably perceived by your opponents, it's hard to say how well you played one particular hand - but I'll share some ideas with you.

[ QUOTE ]
Paradise 5+0
Blinds 100/200
I have 6200 in chips
I have A/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the BB
3 limpers, I raise the pot which is about 1000
One caller,a big stack with about 7000 in chips
Flop is 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif I bet the pot(3600)

[/ QUOTE ]

O.K. thus far, I guess, depending on what you thought would happen when you raised on the first betting round, and what you thought would happen when you bet after the flop. You do recognize that an astute opponent will strongly suspect you have a pair of aces when you raise before the flop, don't you? (Often someone won't have a pair of aces for a pre-flop raise, but it's always a consideration by an astute player, and maybe even by an imbecile, in reading a pre-flop raise).

If you're playing Omaha-8, then an astute opponent will also suspect you might have A2WX, A3WX, 23WX, or A45X for your raise. (W stands for a wheel card higher than one already represented. X stands for anything, including a pairing card). Even if you're sometimes raising with garbage before the flop, a good opponent will still be wary of one of the afore noted hands.

Whatever the game is, Omaha-8 or Omaha-high-only, you do recognize that you have no fit with this flop, don't you?

If you don't recognize you have no fit with this flop, then I suggest you think of all the cards you'd really like to be part of the flop. Aces, spades, cards that make a Broadway for you come to mind. The queen of spades is O.K., but it's only one card. You need at least one other card (preferably two cards) that goes well with the queen of spades, like maybe the ten of spades - something like that to have a decent flop fit. In other words, the flop needs at least two (preferably three) of the cards you'd like to see. An exception here would be that if the flop had an ace (only one of the cards you'd like to see on the flop) you'd have a playable flop fit. That's because you'd make top set with an ace on the flop.

You basically are representing some sort of fit with the flop when you bet on the second betting round - a fit you do not have. If you recognize that you don't have a fit with this flop, then you should recognize that your bet after this flop is a bluff. Pure and simple.

Was it your intent to bluff? If you recognize that your opponent may well be putting you on a pair of aces, and thus may strongly suspect your bet here is a bluff - with this in mind - if it was your intention to bluff, perhaps perceiving weakness in your opponent, then fine.

On the other hand, if you thought your aces were strong after the flop and especially if you thought you had a strong hand after the turn, then you have some learning to do.

Before you made your flop bet, you should have recognized that your opponent could very well have a nice fit with this flop, especially if the game is Omaha-8. After your opponent calls your flop bet, you should be very wary. Why would your opponent call a pot sized raise before the flop and then call a pot sized bet on the flop? What seems logical to you?

[ QUOTE ]
Turn 5/images/graemlins/club.gif Didnt like to see that card but I bet my last 1000 anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

If your opponent has a five, then you're sunk unless you catch an ace on the river. The problem with your bet on the third betting round bet is you're not betting enough to blow anyone without a five off a draw (especially someone who may be playing you for AAXX or may see through what you're doing).

If your opponent is a calling station who doesn't know a good hand from a bad one, and who is trusting to luck, what do you think your opponent will do when you throw in your last chips?

I think maybe you overplayed your aces. It's a common mistake, especially by former Texas hold 'em players. Note that your good opponents are thinking about and looking for ways to exploit mistakes you might be making. Did that happen to you here? I don't know.

Just my humble opinion.

Buzz

[crockpot]

i'm going to answer this assuming the game was omaha high.

good raise preflop. you have a premium hand made even better by the tighter play in tournaments.

the flop bet is necessary, and although you don't like being called, you will often see him on a flush draw.

i wouldn't worry too much about the second five. it didn't beat you unless he called with fives and no other pair on the flop. you might have just drawn out on Q3xx. and if he has top pair and hits a kicker on the river, your hand will still win. most importantly, the 5 means his likely flush draw didn't hit. so despite the actual results of the hand, you should be pleased to see the 5 on the turn. in fact, aside from a 3 or an ace, this is about the most harmless card in the deck. even the ace can make a straight possible.

whether or not you played this correctly depends on the stage of the tournament. if you were at a point where conserving chips would have made a big difference, you may have wanted to be less aggressive. but you can't just let him step in and take the pot from you whenever you raise with aces and don't flop huge with them. this board is ragged and your bet will pick up the pot more often than not. your opponent made a bad play by calling, because he should not be playing a big pot against another big stack, especially on a draw. even in a sidegame, if he assumes you have aces with no flush draw, his hand is barely worth a call if at all. (as an aside, it is also a bad play to flat call a raise preflop with kings. if you don't think your hand is good now, you have no reason to play it, and if you do think it is good, reraise with it.) good play; better luck next time.

[kingstalker]

Thanks for the advice guys, it was Omaha High.

[iblucky4u2]

[ QUOTE ]
Did I play this too aggresively on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ] YES. All you had was a pair

[ QUOTE ]
Was my opponet right to call on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ] He had 13 outs (2 K's, 2 5's & 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gifs) with 2 cards to come = 13/45 + 13/44 - better than even money for his call getting almost 2:1 odds. That's assuming you did not have the heart draw yourself. Maybe not the best call, but not the worst.

As Buzz pointed out, you fired a bluff and got caught.