I don't understand Party 2/4

[Huskiez]

It's come to the point where I now realize I don't know how to play 2/4. I usually play No Limit games, or Limit 2/4 on Pacific (when I was clearing out their bonus), and find these games to be very profitable. I switched to Party 0.5/1 and played enough hands to win 1 BB/100 there. So I switched to 2/4. The players here are insanely bad, but I have had a lot of difficulty adjusting. The difference between Party and Pacific to me thus far is that Party will only pay you off when they have a hand that can beat you, where as Pacific will always pay you off. I sit down at tables and watch people stay in with absolutely nothing on the flop, hoping to catch some sort of impossible draw on the turn where they could already be drawing dead. So I figure this game should be easy to beat, right? No, it hasn't worked that way thus far. Please help.

Here are my stats thus far in 2/4 (Pokertracker):
Level: Party 2/4
Hands: 2,072
VP$IP: 12.45, VP$IP in SB: 19.57
Fold SB to steal: 100, Fold BB to steal: 83.33, Att to Steal: 12.73
W$WSF: 22.56
Amount Won: <font color="red">($233.75)</font>, BB/100 hands: <font color="red">(2.82)</font>
Went to SD %: 25.90, Won $ at SD: 56.44, PFR%: 4.73, RFI: 1.59, Total Rake: 110.50

I have read some typical Limit stats, but in Party 2/4, I think that there is no hope in trying to steal the blinds, because these players will never fold them if they have a prayer. Also, what I usually do with two high cards (like AK, AQ, KQ) is bet the flop if nothing comes, and then check fold on the turn unless I pick up some sort of draw. Is that correct?

I also have two hands where I am seeking advice. These are the type of hands that have killed me thus far.

Hand 1:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 folds.
<font color="green">Sweet, just flopped top pair and a nut flush draw. I bet this out more so for the flush draw, and if I catch two pair, I will bet again on the turn. I figure that these players either have a pair or a straight or flush draw.</font>

Turn: (4.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, UTG folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls.
<font color="green">Looks like MP3 caught his flush or straight (at the time I was almost convinced he had a lower flush). Can't stop raising with the second nuts (very unlikely I'm beaten though).</font>

River: (12.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls.
<font color="green">Standard? I was thinking he might be just raising away on his ace, or think that I have an ace, while he has his flush.</font>

Final Pot: 20.25 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows 3c Ac (flush, ace high).
MP3 shows 7h 7s (full house, sevens full of aces).
Outcome: MP3 wins 20.25 BB. </font>
<font color="green">Ugh. Stop raising on the river? Check call it? Bet and call a raise?</font>

Hand 2:

<font color="green">I have BB as a player who played Q7s in CO 3-handed, and didn't try to steal, so I assume he's semi-legit raiser. He also doesn't think he's bluffing when he bets, as he repeatedly showed hands after betting on the flop (either had top pair, or some sort of draw).</font>

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.
<font color="green">Alright capped preflop with a good hand. I'll probably draw for one card if an ace hits the flop (as the pot is so large), and playing aggressively if it doesn't. I put BB on a semi-decent hand because of those earlier comments. He went ahead and capped it.</font>

Flop: (16.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.
<font color="green">Maybe a draw? The only real draw I see is for the five, where he's holding an ace. Maybe someone else has an overpair.</font>

Turn: (14.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.
<font color="green">Not a card I wanted to see. I called the initial bet looking for the K or 5, and then a check raise signals that BB either has an A or a 5 (I assume Ax, 55, or A5s).</font>

River: (20.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, UTG raises $7.5 (All-In), Hero calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.
<font color="green">Well, I caught my K, the only hands that can beat me are AA, 55 or A5s. Let's see it.</font>

Final Pot: 28.37 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows 5s 4d (straight, five high).
UTG shows 8d 8h (one pair, eights).
Hero shows Kc Kh (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: BB wins 28.37 BB. </font>
<font color="green">Damn it. Why is he capping it preflop with that garbage? Also, I don't even know whether or when I should fold, just considering that UTG has a terrible hand, and if BB happened to have something like that, I would have won. Ugh. Fold to the check raise? Should that signal immediate 5? Can I even draw to the 5? What if on the river BB had an A, and UTG raised to get me out? I would have flipped if I had folded and BB just called. That seems to happen semi-often. The BB 3-bet signaled to me I was semi-done, but the pot was way too large to fold I think.</font>

Any advice is extremely appreciated. Thank you.

[bisonbison]

A rate of 1BB/100 hands at .5/1 is not an indicator that you should move up 2 levels. You should be beating .5/1 for &gt; 3BB/100 over several thousand hands before you move up to 1/2.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Party will only pay you off when they have a hand that can beat you,

[/ QUOTE ]

How are they paying you off if they have a better hand ??

Hand 1: Bet and call a raise on the river.

Hand 2: BB is a maniac, hope he stays around.

[Gramps]

Key stat = 2,072 hands. That's a very small sample size for a high variance game.

I've been doing pretty well at Party $2/4, 30,000 hands and counting. However, in that time, I've had 3 -150 BB losing streaks. I've had a couple of 3,000 to 4,000 hand runs of -3 or 4 BB/100.

Only other thing I can see is that, as you mention, the players are bad and often call flop bets with nothing. You should be seeing &gt; 12.5% of the flops to make money on these mistakes. And for 1/2 bet in the SB, you should be seeing a lot more flops as well. I think I'm seeing about 40% or so of the flops from the SB (though I don't have my Pokertracker stats in front of me).

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that there is no hope in trying to steal the blinds, because these players will never fold them if they have a prayer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think of it as a steal. Think of it as a value bet.

Say you've got Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the Button and it's folded to you. You know what? That's not much of a hand. But it's better, on average, than the random hand that the blind will hold, plus your position is a humongous advantage when it's just 2- or occasionally 3-handed. If he'll defend with any two, all the more reason to raise a reasonable holding, *especially* if you think you can outplay him postflop.

It sounds strange, but when it's folded to you on the Button, you need to stop thinking about it as his blind just because it's placed in front of his avatar on the screen, and start thinking about it as your blind. Because of your position, *you're* the one with a positive expectation if you play. You'll still want to fold a lot of the time, but *you're* the one whose making a sacrifice by doing so.

[balkii]

Gramps,

I agree that in these soft games one is definitely giving up something by only VPIP at 12.5%. However, I do not feel it is good advice to tell a new player who is still losing money to loosen up. Until his post-flop play becomes better and he is more adjusted to these wild games, playing rock-tight is a good, and proper thing to do.

[Gramps]

Yeah, that's a good point. I guess step 1 is develop/prove your skills, then step 2 is play more hands.

[Huskiez]

I also played a lot of .5/1 over the summer when I didn't have Pokertracker, and was doing pretty well at that limit. However that was at Pokerstars where the people were not as loose, and you could somewhat put them on a hand. My Party .5/1 stats have 4000 hands, and I'm guessing the BB/100 is higher if you factor in those Pokerstars hands. My bankroll (which I have built from NL games) can take these 2/4 hits. I might however step down to 1/2.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Party will only pay you off when they have a hand that can beat you

[/ QUOTE ]

How are they paying you off if they have a better hand ??

Hand 1: Bet and call a raise on the river.

Hand 2: BB is a maniac, hope he stays around.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant that in the big pots with a lot of action, I usually lose to a hand which I didn't expect to be there.

The advice for Hand 1 is how I wish I had played it. For Hand 2, when should I have folded, or should I have folded?

[Tosh]

On the turn I'm done.

[JTG51]

Since I like your avatar so much, I've got to try to help you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also, what I usually do with two high cards (like AK, AQ, KQ) is bet the flop if nothing comes, and then check fold on the turn unless I pick up some sort of draw. Is that correct?

This could be a significant leak. It's often correct to check and fold on the flop with your big overcards after you raised preflop. You shouldn't be betting coordinated flops into multiple calling stations after you missed. In general, don't bet your overcards unless you have a pair, a draw, or you think there's a good chance everyone will fold.

More importantly, how about Emeka Okafor? It sounds like his back isn't going to get better any time soon, but he can play with it as long as he can stand the pain. What a bad beat.

[Huskiez]

I would not exactly term myself a new player in poker, as I have been playing for a few years now. I am new however to the absolute crazy limit atmosphere of Party. I am thinking I should sit down at the tables with low average money pots, as that would be closer to a normal game.

I am wondering though whether seeing this few flops is costing me money (as mentioned) in limit, because I am not taking advantage of all potential +EV situations. In NL, it is okay because you can profit highly postflop, especially because they are so loose. For example, in both Hand 1 and Hand 2, I could have pushed, and that would have been +EV. But in limit I can't, and then it's just trying to get them to fold (at least in Hand 2) but they won't.

[Bob T.]

You have a very small sample, and you are playing in a fairly volatile game. Additionally, you are either getting no cards, or playing very tightly, this makes your sample size even smaller.

Given that you were beating other games, although by reputation one of the easiest games on the internet, you can probably beat this one. You recognize that your opponents are making mistakes, and that is usually the main key to being able to beat the game. Give it a little more time, and if you need to go back to .50/1.00 for a while and get your confidence back.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
Since I like your avatar so much, I've got to try to help you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, thanks.

Usually I will either bet or call one bet because the pot is usually around 8-12 SBs, and I will have odds to draw to six outs (overcards). To let them seemingly buy it for one SB seems almost wrong, especially when they sometimes have absolutely nothing. However, this type of situation has screwed me over plenty, so I will try this out and stop betting unless I get TPTK or something. Thanks.

They said Okafor would be a game time decision. However, I can see them losing though tonight, as much as I don't want it to happen. I'm just hoping he's healthy in time for the NCAA tourney.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
You recognize that your opponents are making mistakes

[/ QUOTE ]

It's almost harder to find when they are playing correctly. However, it seems one or two people at each table seem to play pretty good. I am playing now one or two tables so I can see which players are actually playing correctly and are not complete fish.

I'll try it out for some more, but won't hesitate to step down if I find no success. Thanks.

[JTG51]

Usually I will either bet or call one bet because the pot is usually around 8-12 SBs, and I will have odds to draw to six outs (overcards).

Just keep in mind that you are often drawing to less than 6 outs. Someone could easily have a pair with an Ace or King kicker that takes away 3 of your outs, and if the board is highly coordinated you could hit and still lose. That doesn't mean you should always check and fold when you miss the flop, just that you should probably do it more often than you are.

I'm just hoping he's healthy in time for the NCAA tourney.

Unfortunately, he's not going to be. He's got a small fracture in his lower back. I guess that's not as bad as it sounds, but he's not going to get better before the season is over.

Here's (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1756804) the lastest from ESPN.com if you missed it.

[MaxPower]

Hi,

I didn't read your entire post, but it is pretty clear that you are playing way too tight (Unless you are getting a incredibly bad run of cards). Maybe this comes from playing NL.

I'm not saying that this is the reason for your results. It could just be a bad run or some other problems with your game.

My guess is a VP$IP of 17-20% should be good in these games. Now you just have to figure out which hands you should be playing.

[Gramps]

Quote: "...and then it's just trying to get them to fold (at least in Hand 2) but they won't."

Your profit at Party $2/4 won't come from making people fold better hands, it'll come from your opponents putting $$ in the pot PF with garbage and chasing. I think some players have a hard time with having to "dumb down" their game and not bluff (rarely bluff). I can see how going from NL to Party $2/4 is quite an adjustment in that regard (not bluffing).

And yes, one is inevitbaly going to have their big pairs cracked by hands that had no business being in the pot in the first place (or capping the pot in your example), and it gets very, very frustrating at times. I find a good exercise is to replay some pokertracker hands where you WIN with those hands, and to see the garbage that people called your PFR with AND paid you off with. The only time you'll see it when you're playing is when you take a bad beat, but you're still making serious $$ in the long run when your opponents play those hands.

[Huskiez]

What a way to put pressure on the guy.

"Connecticut's Emeka Okafor has a stress fracture in his lower back that is causing back spasms, but he can play if he can withstand the pain, Dr. Jeff Anderson, the Huskies' director of sports medicine, told ESPN.com Thursday."

Basically the doc is saying he can either man up or pussy out. Anyway, whatever he decides to do, hopefully all goes well with both UConn and Emeka.

[Huskiez]

I think my tight playing style does come from NL. My VP$IP in NL is 13.12 over 20,000 hands. It mostly comes from pocket pairs, high cards, and suited aces. Basically hands where I know if I hit on the flop, I am in extremely good shape.

I might have to add suited connectors, high cards against a raise?? (i.e. AJo or KQo against a raise, though I'm not sure about that, I hate to play dominated hands against a raise), steal attempts, SB hands, etc.

By the way, my Win % is 4.68. I figure that also is a bit on the low side. From what I read, it should be around 7%.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: "...and then it's just trying to get them to fold (at least in Hand 2) but they won't."

Your profit at Party $2/4 won't come from making people fold better hands

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant KK against 54o or 88 preflop, or even on the flop when I had the best of it. In NL you can push and that is the end of it, and you know you're making the right decision. I usually tend not to bluff in NL because the opponents will call with a lot of junk.

In NL I find it easier to see whether I made a right decision when I bet or folded or checked. In Limit it's a bit harder I think, especially when so many people are in a pot that they're bound to catch something to beat you. In NL you can isolate yourself against each one of them and each folds (or calls incorrectly), but in Limit it's not the case, and each has the odds to call a small bet.

Might try out your Pokertracker idea. Thanks for the advice.

[Styles]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my tight playing style does come from NL. My VP$IP in NL is 13.12 over 20,000 hands. It mostly comes from pocket pairs, high cards, and suited aces. Basically hands where I know if I hit on the flop, I am in extremely good shape.

I might have to add suited connectors, high cards against a raise?? (i.e. AJo or KQo against a raise, though I'm not sure about that, I hate to play dominated hands against a raise), steal attempts, SB hands, etc.

By the way, my Win % is 4.68. I figure that also is a bit on the low side. From what I read, it should be around 7%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I feel your pain. I'm a newbie to 2/4 also.

I think it's a mistake to skip limits. I definitely made major adjustments from 1/2 to 2/4 and although I kept "winning" my win-rate dived from 5BB/100 to like 1.X for a while recently before I caught up. I'm still not totally comfortable, but, I'm getting the hang of it.

I also disagree that your win rate should be much higher if you play that tight. My VP$IP is near to yours and I'm making mad money right now at 6%. Think about it. That's 33%WSF it doesn't get much better than that. I think my best session was something around 40%.

I don't play AJo or KQo against a raise, either. So, I don't think that's what is hurting you.

You obviously have PokerTracker. Try this, go into the filter and pick only the pairs AA-22 and see what your numbers look like. That's what I did when I had a losing streak and it sort of showed me where I was winning and where I was losing.

'Stealing Blinds' is not a significant portion of my win-rate either. I don't think this is where the bread-n-butter is at low-limits.

So what does this leave? Well according the HEPFAP 1) playing too many hands or 2) going to far with them. Since it seems you've got 1 licked, it must be 2. It seems to go with your admitted play of overcards. While your hands are higher quality it's easy to overplay them. I have a bad case of that with hands like AKs.

Hang in there, Good Luck!

[Styles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote: "...and then it's just trying to get them to fold (at least in Hand 2) but they won't."

Your profit at Party $2/4 won't come from making people fold better hands

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant KK against 54o or 88 preflop, or even on the flop when I had the best of it. In NL you can push and that is the end of it, and you know you're making the right decision. I usually tend not to bluff in NL because the opponents will call with a lot of junk.

In NL I find it easier to see whether I made a right decision when I bet or folded or checked. In Limit it's a bit harder I think, especially when so many people are in a pot that they're bound to catch something to beat you. In NL you can isolate yourself against each one of them and each folds (or calls incorrectly), but in Limit it's not the case, and each has the odds to call a small bet.

Might try out your Pokertracker idea. Thanks for the advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had another idea based on this post. Poker Essays I has some good stuff on the differences between Limit and NL. If you haven't read them it might help you make the transition back and forth between sessions.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
In NL I find it easier to see whether I made a right decision when I bet or folded or checked. In Limit it's a bit harder I think, especially when so many people are in a pot that they're bound to catch something to beat you. In NL you can isolate yourself against each one of them and each folds (or calls incorrectly), but in Limit it's not the case, and each has the odds to call a small bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

And that is the differance, you make your money in limit at low levels ie 2/4 etc in two main ways, firstly by people chasing when you have the best of it and secondly having people in to give you the ability to chase with big draws.

You made a comment about them being bound to catch somthing, I wonder if that makes you more passive post flop, if you have the best of it and you think people are chasing then make them pay raise it up, a lot of times at this level you find even when the apparent draw hits the apparent chaser doesnt have it.

Same when you are drawing when you have the odds and position then jam the pot.

Maybe look at your starting hands if you have mainly played no limit maybe you are not playing some suited and suited one gap connectors that you could and should be (dependant on position)

The main thing though is be agressive, get the bets in yes you get sucked out at times and is annoying and frustrating but dont get angry, smile and know his poor play is going to line your pockets at some point.

[BugsBunny]

Hand 1 there's no way you lay it down. It happens. Although I don't think I would reraise the river with the 2 A's showing. Too many people play Ax where the x could have paired. With a different pair I *probably* still raise - although the cap on the turn may cause me to slow down (unlikely, but player dependent).

Hand 2 I'm done when the turn comes. Any A beats me, any 5 beats me.


Just as a point of comparison stat wise. Here's my stats on Party 2/4
Hands: 11,468
VPIP: 19.09 VPIP from SB: 44.82
Folded SB to steal: 72.22 Folded BB to steal: 61.84 Att to steal blinds: 28.83
W$WSF: 33.36
BB/100: 3.47
Went to SD: 36.7 Won at SD: 50.23
PFR: 8.73

Since Feb 22 I've been on a minor tear (also fixed some leaks, I think), the stats since Feb 22 look like:
Hands: 4,815
VPIP: 19.96 VPIP from SB: 48.81
Folded SB to steal: 72.73 Folded BB to steal: 58.62 Att to steal blinds: 31.49
W$WSF: 35.49
BB/100: 7.90
Went to SD: 35.73 Won at SD: 54.69
PFR: 9.03

If I look at the stats until Feb 22:
Hands: 6,653
VPIP: 18.46 VPIP from SB: 42.07
Folded SB to steal: 72.00 Folded BB to steal: 63.83 Att to steal blinds: 27.27
W$WSF: 31.74
BB/100: .26
Went to SD: 37.44 Won at SD: 47.00
PFR: 8.60



Just note that in comparison to you I'm playing more hands, and raising more preflop (by a significant amount). I'm also aggressive postflop.
Aggression rating: combined/post 2-22/ pre 2-22
Preflop - .71/.69/.72
Flop: 2.57/2.54/2.59
Turn: 2.82/2.71/2.91
River: 1.99/2.02/1.97

If the hands you're playing are as selective as the VPIP number suggests then you definitely should be raising more preflop - and if you stay in the hand then keep being aggressive. But make sure that th hand is worth staying in after the flop/turn. Hands like #2 can cost you a lot of money. Hands like #1 will eventually make you a lot of money.

[lefty rosen]

I was able to steadily grind on party during the day and win solid money at this level for 3 months, then the roof caved in on me, and I have been stuck marginally at this level(overall I am slightly up on the year because of NL and Omaha high low). I think the player base of party as shifted and the games have become really stupidly loose during the day and I didnt adjust. At night I expected this crap but during the day I never saw so many rookies that were willing to chase to high heaven. Back in October they were limited to one or two on a table not 4 or 5.......

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]

I might have to add suited connectors, high cards against a raise?? (i.e. AJo or KQo against a raise, though I'm not sure about that, I hate to play dominated hands against a raise), steal attempts, SB hands, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do not cold-call any raises with offsuit high cards other than AK.

There are plenty of good sources that explain how to play pre-flop in limit holdem. Also there was a recent post by Ed Miller on playing pre-flop in loose games - it might be an eye opener for you.

Also I don't know what hand you raise with pre-flop, but you might need to ramp that up as well.

But the other posters are probably right, make sure you post-flop play is solid before adding too many hands.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
So what does this leave? Well according the HEPFAP 1) playing too many hands or 2) going to far with them. Since it seems you've got 1 licked, it must be 2. It seems to go with your admitted play of overcards. While your hands are higher quality it's easy to overplay them. I have a bad case of that with hands like AKs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you nailed it. I overplay my hands when I don't realize they're bad but my opponent does (e.g. overpair against set, TPTK against hidden two pair, etc.). That Hand 2 was just me being confused out of my mind regarding what he could have and trying to make sense of it all. I think folding coming on the turn when I easily could be beat and forgoing paying those big bets to see if I am right is probably the best way to go about it. It's just really frustrating when you would have won it, as I have seen many times.

[Huskiez]

Here are my aggression ratings, as I think they are applicable.

Preflop: 0.51
Flop: 2.58
Turn: 1.96
River: 1.54

Overall: 1.16

So extremely passive preflop and then aggressive postflop, when I think I have it, but in reality don't.

I think these look somewhat similar to BugsBunny's stats, except less aggressive on each street, except on flop.

[Huskiez]

Do you find it easier to beat the high average pot games where everyone is borderline maniac or the lower average games (like the ones you were expecting to find during the daytime)?

[MaxPower]

Is that the aggression factor that pokertracker computes or is that your raise percentage?

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
You obviously have PokerTracker. Try this, go into the filter and pick only the pairs AA-22 and see what your numbers look like. That's what I did when I had a losing streak and it sort of showed me where I was winning and where I was losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I checked this out. Pretty interesting results.

For Pairs only, up <font color="green">147.50</font>, BB/Hand <font color="green">0.35</font>. I am up on all pairs except for 33 (least negative), 77, 22, 55, KK (most negative, but not only because of Hand 2).

I also checked out Sklansky Groups 1-3 hands. This was very interesting. I'm up <font color="green">428.75</font> on these hands, BB/Hand <font color="green">0.82</font>. The only negative ones are ATs and KK.

For Pairs 88 and lower (i.e. Pairs not in Sklansky Group 1-3), I am up <font color="green">2.50</font> , BB/Hand <font color="green">0.01</font>.

I've paid $732 in blind money.

I don't know what that all means, except that the good hands are paying me off pretty well, as are pairs in general, except for the lower ones.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that the aggression factor that pokertracker computes or is that your raise percentage?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the one computed by Pokertracker, when I click the More Detail on the General Tab.

[Homer]

Here are my aggression ratings, as I think they are applicable.

Preflop: 0.51
Flop: 2.58
Turn: 1.96
River: 1.54

Overall: 1.16

Hmmm, I never noticed this data in PT before. My numbers are as follows:

PF - 0.52
F - 2.29
T - 2.36
R - 1.28

O - 1.17

How do I interpret these numbers?

-- Homer

[JTG51]

I'm also interested in hearing some thoughts about these numbers.

Mine are:

Preflop: 0.98
Flop: 3.53
Turn: 3.41
River: 1.89
Overall: 1.90

I've never thought of my self as being extremely aggressive, I'm surprised how high my numbers are. The fact that my numbers are so much higer than Homer's but we both have good results makes me think the stat doesn't have a whole lot of value.

[MaxPower]

For 3/6 my numbers are almost identical to Homer's and at the risk of bragging, my result are very good.

It is (Raise%+Bet%)/Call%. So your numbers might be higher because you raise and bet more or because you call less.

[JTG51]

I've played tons of Party 3/6 lately, so that makes up a good portion of my stats now.

I guess the moral of the story is, there's more than one way to win a lot of money in Party 2/4 and 3/6 games.

[MaxPower]

Its either that or one of us is really lucky. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BottlesOf]

Just to throw in there:

PF 1.14
F 4.08
T 3.74
R 2.23

Overal 2.13

Guess I'm a maniac /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Homer]

I've never thought of my self as being extremely aggressive, I'm surprised how high my numbers are.

I'm not surprised that your preflop and river numbers are higher than mine, as I still don't raise with a wide enough range of hands after limpers (be it in LP or in the blinds) preflop and don't value bet the river enough. However, I am surprised that your flop and turn numbers are so much higher, as I think I show a good amount of aggression on those streets.

The fact that my numbers are so much higer than Homer's but we both have good results makes me think the stat doesn't have a whole lot of value.

This could very well be the case. I wonder what equation Pat uses to determine these numbers and how he came up with it. Maybe we could come up with something better that could be implemented in the next release.

-- Homer

[Homer]

Guess I'm a maniac

Either that or I'm super-weak. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[richie]

Wow, I've never noticed these numbers before. I play primarily 2/4 and I have 2 databases, 1 for 2003 and this year's numbers. Interesting to compare the numbers to each other:

2003 Data:

6925 hands, +3.67BB/100
Agression ratings of
PF 0.22
F .89
T 1.11
R 0.93
O 0.57

2004 Data:

5800 hands, +5.25BB/100
Aggression ratings of
PF 0.23
F 0.95
T 1.32
R 1.20
O 0.63

Summarizing --still too passive pre-flop (around 4%),but post-flop I have become more aggressive and my WR/100 has increased 50% /images/graemlins/smile.gif OTOH, my sample size is small and I have tightened up pre-flop (from 22% to 19%), which could be the main reason for the increased win-rate. Looks like something to keep an eye on, though.

BTW, Homer, THIS is super-weak. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
I meant that in the big pots with a lot of action, I usually lose to a hand which I didn't expect to be there

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding, today I had a hand which was bet all the way by UTG, and capped on the river. I had KJ, the board was KKTTK, UTG bet every street, then bet and raised which allowed me to cap on the river (there was another player in the hand). UTG held 73o. The unfortunate button had QQ and was just along for the ride because of UTG's awful play.