Online $20-40, a couple of hands.

[LarsVegas]

Paradise $20-40, full table.

Hand 1
------

Very tough, aggressive player (TAP) raises from EP. Cold-called by the next player (unknown to me) and I look down at 5h5d in MP. I choose to call. Rest fold, including the blinds. Three to the flop for 7 1/2 SB.

Flop: 8c 6c 3c. TAP bets, cold-caller folds, I call.

Turn: 6h. TAP bets, I call.

River: Qd. TAP checks, I check.

Comments? The way I see it, I have three debateable decisions, one very clear-cut. Furthermore I think out of my three debateable decisions, I choose wrong at least once.

Hand 2
------

The only interesting part of this hand, really, is pre-flop.

UTG limps, MP raises, CO three-bets, I cap with TT on the button (suits irrelevant). Folded back to MP and CO who both call. Three to the flop, 14 1/2 SB in the pot.

Flop: Jh-Ts-5h. Checked to me, I bet, both call.

Turn: 3s. Checked to me, I bet, MP check-raises, CO folds, I three-bet and MP calls.

River: Qh. MP checks, I bet.

Comments?

lars

[Clarkmeister]

I'd fold them both preflop without much thought.

[shemp]

Hand 1. I'd fold preflop and bet the river. I think raising the turn here would be a bad idea.

Hand 2. I'd fold preflop.

[Nightwish]

Hand 1: I would probably muck it pre-flop. The problem with this hand is that even those times that you're ahead, you probably won't know it so you won't be able to make much money on it. Having said that, you got about the best flop you could hope for (short of a 5 or 234). Finally, when you called on the turn, were you also planning to call on the river if no club came and he bet into you? If so, you should probably raise on the turn. If he has a pocket pair, he'll certainly call and likely check to you on the river, where you can also check if the river is not a 5. The benefit in raising is that you'll get AK or AQ out. But overall, I'd say it's probably not worth calling 2 cold with 55.

Hand 2: your pre-flop cap is probably correct because of your superb position and the fact that you can check the turn (if it's checked to you) if the flop and/or turn are really scary. The only danger on the river is that MP has AKs, so if he check-raises you on the river again, I would just call.

[CrackerZack]

Hand 1 is pretty ugly. call-call-call-check. all we're missing is the word station.

hand 2 I'd fold PF also but not love it.

[Robk]

In hand 1, that's a clear bet on the river.

[DanZ]

haven't read the other posts, but -

How on earth do you play fives in the first hand AND
why are you capping it with tens instead of folding?

Dan Z.

[cero_z]

Hi Lars,
You are playing way too loose pre-flop to beat this game in the long run, IMO. Calling with 55 in that spot is the fishiest of plays. Capping with TT is probably just as bad. If MP thinks you are a good player, which he may not, his turn raise says "overpair", and your 3-bet says "Aces or overplayed (pre-flop) JJ". So, on the river, it's about 2 to 1 that he has Kings, so I guess you ought to bet.

[SoBeDude]

Hi Lars,

The 20-40 on paradise is not for the faint of heart. There are several top players there. There are also several who play very loose-aggressive preflop, but play excellently postflop.

Under no circumstances do I overcall preflop with 55 there.

You're play with TT is just about as bad. You need to think about how this hand will unfold postflop when you DON'T flop a ten, which will be most of the time. Do you think they're going to fold even if you get a favorable low flop? They're getting odds to chase AK to the river, chase any gutshot, and any flush draw. They're also going to properly chase any pair. And most importantly, they're not folding on the flop. With an UTG limp an MP raise and a CO reraise, these are legitimate hands you're facing. And even though UTG folds in this case, you have think its likely that one of the three opponents has an overpair preflop. And there are a lot of overcards to TT. And they're not going anywhere.

Find better spots to play TT.

-Scott

[mr1satzgruppe]

hand 1 playing your 55s here is proably -ev ihave been reading lately about lags like myself making this call the downside to this call is it could easily be reraised behind you and playing pairs for multiple bets is generally not a good idea ok u have decided to too play ibelieve you should raise the flop to see where you stand fold to a3 bet if called check turn call river unless scare card comes why your opponent didnt fire the last barrel on the river is amystery too me hand 2 fold 10s to all but maniacs which as clarkmeister said a three 3 at paradise 20-40 usually means the goods you would have to own these guys too cap with 10s here you flopped trips and took down a nice pot good for u

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold them both preflop without much thought.

[/ QUOTE ]
Same, usually

[LarsVegas]

Hand 1, TAG (Angelina as it would happen) showed AcKx for nut no pair on the river and my fives. I definitely have a value bet when checked to here. This player would value bet any pair from 99 and up any day of the week here. Likewise, of course, a rivered queen. Furthermore, she will pay off with a strong Ace everytime given the nature of the board. This is actually close to a full 1 BB mistake.

As for the pre-flop call, when I guess I have to take the critizism here seriously, as there are several brilliant poker players frequenting these forums. However, this one must be at very least, close. Worst case scenario here is playing 55 three-way with position with 2:75-to-1 on my money. Given my position, I can play some flops where I don't catch a set profitably. I believe enough in my own skills enough that I feel this hand has more than just set-equity for me.

Hand 2 is of course win, hand history showed KK for MP.

I discussed both these hands with a good friend of mine during this weekend Norwegian Championships, who is amongst the most winning online players around, playing all the games and limits around, but also with vast experience from the Paradise $20-40.

He felt the pre-flop call with fives is clear and that the tens were borderline. I asked him if Jacks would be a clear cap for him, and he said yes.

[shemp]

Angelina is superior to me, and I haven't played in that game for a couple years, but I do remember thinking that playing the river perfectly against this opponent was absolutely essential, I think it cuts against your preflop choice, which I already expressed an opinion on.

[SoBeDude]

As for the pre-flop call, when I guess I have to take the critizism here seriously, as there are several brilliant poker players frequenting these forums. However, this one must be at very least, close. Worst case scenario here is playing 55 three-way with position with 2:75-to-1 on my money. Given my position, I can play some flops where I don't catch a set profitably. I believe enough in my own skills enough that I feel this hand has more than just set-equity for me.

Hi Lars,

This really sounds like justification for a bad play to me.

Maybe if you were heads-up with Angelina and you could 3bet to isolate her, and you were in LP so the chance of another caller/raiser behind was minimal, then MAYBE playing the 5's here is OK.

The 3rd player in the hand makes playing the 5's horrible IMO. You clearly must know you can't play 5's for set value here as you're paying 2 bets up front and will only usually have 2 opponents. odds are shot. So you're left with trying to figure out if your 5's are good against 2 opponents on a board that will surely contain overcards.

And with 2 opponents, playing the 5's when you miss is much more difficult. Especially given the skill of Angelina. Do you realize she will raise up front with a dizzying array of hands? I've seen her raise UTG with J9s. and many times with 8's. and she plays the 8's just like AK. you can't tell the difference. I think thats a really tough spot to be playing against her.

Find an easier spot to play against the best.

Just my thoughts,

-Scott

[Angelina]

"He felt the pre-flop call with fives is clear"

This is horrible advice. You need 99 and you should fold AQo. You are making pennies when best and losing dollars when not.


--
Angelina Fekali
Studying People Inc.
http://www.fekali.com/angelina

[SoBeDude]

Hi Angelina,

Welcome to the forum!

(What took you so long!?)

-Scott

[LarsVegas]

She's been around Scott. She only pops in ever so often when it gets real interesting, last seen a couple of years ago in a thread regarding raising JJ against limpers from BB (how times change). She was amongst the few strongly supporting my raise-stance back then.

Nice to see you again Angie, also pleased to see that your site is back up (and revamped!), thought we might had lost it forever.

lars

[snakehead]

[ QUOTE ]
You need 99 and you should fold AQo

[/ QUOTE ]

not against and over-aggressive player like angelina.

[Angelina]

"over-aggressive player like angelina"

You must have a pretty good record against me. Please let me have your PP nick, so I can verify it against my PokerStat histories.

Angelina
Studying People Inc.
http://www.fekali.com/angelina

[J_V]

clash of the titans....angelina vs snakehead two weeks... Pay per view. The weigh in will be in one week. I hope angelina is really a chick, cuz i don't want to see abdul or izmet in there undies.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope angelina is really a chick

[/ QUOTE ]

Prepare to be disappointed.

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope angelina is really a chick

[/ QUOTE ]

Um. Dude.

[glen]

I'll take snakehead in this one, and I think it would definitely be a better match-up than Ulysses' suggested JV vs. Ikke matchup. In any case, I'll set them both up at Stars, and if you want to watch either of them, PM me and I will tell who to transfer the $39.99 viewing fee to. . . .

[Mikey]

so, you read Phil Hellmuth's book too....

[J_V]

Yeah, I know, no girl is THAT aggressive.

[glen]

BTW, how funny is the two monitors each with one table?

[J_V]

get your ass on IM already, or are you still trying to get that lame architectural degree. Who do you think you are Frank Lloyd Wright?

The 100 at stars looks prime right now. Go play neverwin and see if you can make next year's salary by tomorrow morning.

[glen]

I'm better than Daddy Frank. . .

[snakehead]

[ QUOTE ]
You must have a pretty good record against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

whether I do or not is irrelavent. I stand by my assessment of your play.

[J_V]

Easy bet, on 1. Hand 1 is an awful preflop call. Who wants to play 55 against Angelina here? You aren't gonna beat her style of play with this type of hand here, especially if you aren't gonna put in any action on an excellent flop and turn.

[King Yao]

[ QUOTE ]

As for the pre-flop call, when I guess I have to take the critizism here seriously, as there are several brilliant poker players frequenting these forums. However, this one must be at very least, close. Worst case scenario here is playing 55 three-way with position with 2:75-to-1 on my money. Given my position, I can play some flops where I don't catch a set profitably. I believe enough in my own skills enough that I feel this hand has more than just set-equity for me.


[/ QUOTE ]

55 is a horrible call. An early position raise from a tough player means a pair 88 or higher (it doesn't actually matter what pair, since they are all higher than 55) or two overcards. You may be getting some pot odds, but how many flops will you like with 55? Basically only flops with a 5 or flops such as 346, 467 where it gives you an open ended straight. Thats not many flops. This was a big mistake, maybe not for one pot, but it shows clearly that your starting hand requirements are not stringent enough. If you are happy to call an EP raise with that hand, I can think of many other hands where you would erroneously play.

I'm sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but that's my opinion.

[astroglide]

and i concur with your assessment

[SoBeDude]

Perhaps there is a fine line between properly aggressive and overly-aggressive.

But I KNOW I have shared a lot of time on the Paradise 20-40 with Angelina. And all of it this year. I don't recall seeing either of you on the tables.

Yes she is aggressive. Quite.

She is tough to put on a hand. She makes you pay to draw. She value bets very very well.

She is a tough opponent.

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope angelina is really a chick

[/ QUOTE ]

Prepare to be disappointed.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you saying? those pictures of her on her website aren't really her?

For a non-chick, she sure looks fantastic when scantily clad.

-Scott

[astroglide]

i haven't played the paradise 20/40 since last summer. i have seen her "value bet" stuff like an 88 underpair the whole way on a terrifying flop (like KQT) and bet the whole way. usually very sound though, and more "stable" than me.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope angelina is really a chick

[/ QUOTE ]

Prepare to be disappointed.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you saying? those pictures of her on her website aren't really her?

For a non-chick, she sure looks fantastic when scantily clad.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

If it makes you happy to think its a chick and not a dude, then by all means, fantasize away. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[SoBeDude]

If it makes you happy to think its a chick and not a dude, then by all means, fantasize away.

Then who's the girl in the pics, and why all the elaborate effort to make websites and such?

-Scott

[Ulysses]

Those chicks Sexy19yroldFox, TeenNymphoGirl, and JennyLuvsSex on the chatroom, they're all dudes too, SoBe.

[Diplomat]

Am I the only one taking offence to your name?

-Diplomat

[SoBeDude]

How about:
http://angelina.is.dreaming.org/

Or:
http://www.fekali.com/

THOSE are the websites I'm talking about.

-Scott

[Gabe]

...and so are half the women.

[James282]

How about when Izmet says he emailed David with this hand when he was having a discussion about the preflop merits of AQ with David Sklanksy over email?
-James

Posted at Feb 29/2004 08:03 PM:
Izmet: A nice example that David should think over, I believe:

-----------------------------------------------------
Game #450839418 - $20/$40 Texas Hold'em - 2004/02/29-12:47:36 (CST)
Table "Bikar" (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Miss Swan ($780.00 in chips)
Seat 2: xMaSrUsH ($1,734.00 in chips)
Seat 3: mikerocky ($1,303.00 in chips)
Seat 4: ryan 2003 ($530.00 in chips)
Seat 5: Angelina ($4,424.50 in chips)
Seat 7: aaa100 ($1,049.00 in chips)
Seat 9: sniktaw ($845.00 in chips)
Seat 10: kiki61 ($270.00 in chips)
aaa100 : Post Small Blind ($10)
sniktaw : Post Big Blind ($20)
Dealing...
Dealt to Angelina [ 4d ]
Dealt to Angelina [ 4c ]
kiki61 : Call ($20)
Miss Swan: Fold
xMaSrUsH: Fold
mikerocky: Fold
ryan 2003: Fold
Angelina: Raise ($40)
aaa100 : Fold
sniktaw : Fold
kiki61 : Call ($20)
*** FLOP *** : [ 2c Jc Ks ]
kiki61 : Check
Angelina: Bet ($20)
kiki61 : Call ($20)
*** TURN *** : [ 2c Jc Ks ] [ 7c ]
kiki61 : Check
Angelina: Bet ($40)
kiki61 : Call ($40)
*** RIVER *** : [ 2c Jc Ks 7c ] [ 7s ]
kiki61 : Check
Angelina: Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $227 | Rake: $3
Board: [ 2c Jc Ks 7c 7s ]
Miss Swan didn't bet (folded)
xMaSrUsH didn't bet (folded)
mikerocky didn't bet (folded)
ryan 2003 didn't bet (folded)
Angelina bet $100, collected $227, net +$127 (showed hand) [ 4d 4c ] (two pair, sevens and fours)
Any2Suited didn't bet
aaa100 lost $10 (folded)
sniktaw lost $20 (folded)
kiki61 lost $100 (showed hand) [ As Qh ] (a pair of sevens)

[snakehead]

I never said angelina wasn't a tuff player. my point is that you don't need a monster to call his raises.

and though I'm not a paradise regular, I played with you in the last couple of days. you have a trust fund, right?

[J_V]

ha, you rule, snakehead.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I played with you in the last couple of days. you have a trust fund, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's funnier? That line or "I'm RICK JAMES, b*tch!" ? Close.

[J.R.]

Charlie Murphy's real hollywood stories are legit.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

Whaaat?

[SoBeDude]

and though I'm not a paradise regular, I played with you in the last couple of days. you have a trust fund, right?

I'm always looking for constructive comments on my play, hence my very presence on this forum.

Please post a hand you and I played and lets discuss it.

Either that, or shut the f*ck up.

-Scott

[snakehead]

lol. ignorant people are so easy to spot. they have no sense of humor. and ignorant people make poor poker players.

the hands I have played with you aren't important enough to me to discuss them. especially with you.

one more thing: I don't give free lessons.

[SoBeDude]

Thats what I figured. You've got nothing worthwhile to say.

Why am I not the least bit suprised?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I figured. You've got nothing worthwhile to say.

Why am I not the least bit suprised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probabaly not a good idea pissing off quite probabaly the best player on these forums not named Zee.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I figured. You've got nothing worthwhile to say.

Why am I not the least bit suprised?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probabaly not a good idea pissing off quite probabaly the best player on these forums not named Zee.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? he has nothing constructive to say and is just being insulting. And for no reason.

[J_V]

Not sure if there is any history here, but Sobe seemed to have been randomly attacked here- not that there's anything wrong with unbridled attacks.

[J.A.Sucker]

Not true by any means. I've had several exchanges with snakehead in the past, and he's always the one person who can help me. He used to post (back in the old days) as another name... As for his quick jabs and other assorted comments, I think that they too are world-class. True brilliance. Every time I see a snakehead post, I get excited. I'll either get some nice poker advice or a better quip.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if there is any history here, but Sobe seemed to have been randomly attacked here- not that there's anything wrong with unbridled attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to admit, his stubborness when faced with the fact that Angelina is a dude was kinda silly looking. I mean, reread those posts. And I think sobe is a decent guy.

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if there is any history here, but Sobe seemed to have been randomly attacked here- not that there's anything wrong with unbridled attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to admit, his stubborness when faced with the fact that Angelina is a dude was kinda silly looking. I mean, reread those posts. And I think sobe is a decent guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

She says she knows David personally. If David says that Angelina is a man I'll believe him.

-Scott

[Ulysses]

If I thought snakehead (or anyone else) was being a dick to me for no reason, I wouldn't feel any reason to be nice to him either. But if snakehead told me he played with me and my game sucked, I'd have some serious concerns about my game and would focus my energies on that rather than flaming snakehead back or trying to confirm that Angelina is a dude.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]

Probabaly not a good idea pissing off quite probabaly the best player on these forums not named Zee.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, Clark, he didn't piss me off. HAHAHAHAHA... Oh man, good stuff....

[SoBeDude]

As I recall, I asked him for specifics and input.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
As I recall, I asked him for specifics and input.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you did.

Please post a hand you and I played and lets discuss it.

Either that, or shut the f*ck up.

I'm sure everyone was surprised that snakehead didn't respond w/ a detailed analysis of your play w/ suggestions for improvement.

[Clarkmeister]

You don't get it do you?

[SoBeDude]

I guess I'm a little thick headed.

I don't see the need or rationalization for someone to go through this much effort to pretend to be a woman.

Its just way too silly for me to easily believe it.

-Scott

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm a little thick headed.

I don't see the need or rationalization for someone to go through this much effort to pretend to be a woman.

Its just way too silly for me to easily believe it.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, so ignore everyone else who is telling you otherwise, right? In other words, we aren't guessing that he's a guy, we know.

Don't worry, it doesn't make you gay to have been attracted to those pictures. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't worry, it doesn't make you gay to have been attracted to those pictures. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Goddammit, I just spewed water all over my keyboard.