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prop
03-10-2004, 02:51 PM
hello all, first time poster, long time pro limit player short on NL cash experience but learning since it seems to be the new wave (and it's more interesting).

game is $1-2 NL $399 max. buy (max buy is actually $200 but you can buy again if you're under $200 so you just buy in for $399 and give the chip runner a dollar)

I layed down 2 pair 3 times last night and need to know if this is normal. all three hands went something like this: im in the blind with Kx flop top and bottom, decide to check raise and then get re-raised by solid type player. the re-raise generally puts half the opponents stack in. i just dont think i can be winning in these situations...right? im sure that my play is protected because i've moved all in with the nuts twice in this same session after a check raise so there is no reason to beleive i check raise when weak. (this "session" was about 20 hours) I finished up 1.5k but still wonder if im leaving something on the table. in limit these hands are through tickets...i'm trying to get used to these laydowns (if they're correct)

crockpot
03-10-2004, 02:59 PM
with no additional information i would lay down top and bottom here. but knowing anything about how the opponent plays may change it to an all-in, or perhaps a call and an all-in bet on the turn if you think the opponent is on a draw and the draw doesn't get there.

Toro
03-10-2004, 03:12 PM
Whenever I sit down to a Pot Limit or No Limit game and there are a bunch of unfamiliar faces I am always wary that they view me as new meat and that I am going to get tested early. So early in the session, I tend to not lay down hands as you have described. And the great majority of the time these calls have proven to be correct.

Now, after I've established that I'm not going to be pushed off a hand and they try the same thing later in the session, I give them more respect and tend towards folding. Hope this helps.

Matt Flynn
03-10-2004, 03:36 PM
best advice is never show that two pair when you lay it down, but you know that from limit.

the observant players will learn you don't check-raise unless you have it. also, if you lay down after check-raising often enough they get odds to re-fire at you with good draws.

i watch check raises even more than preflop raises. there are three players in my usual game that simply always have at least two pair (or a straight-flush draw) when they check-raise, and they usually do it on the turn. might as well turn on a neon sign. it is a tremendous advantage for me because it allows me to value bet top pair / good kicker on the turn. if they raise i fold giving up at worst a five-out draw.

matt