TT, live with a short stack

[Wayfare]

Hi all,

.25/.5 NL game, stacks have inflated madly because of really poor / loose play. MP1 has $300, I have $50 (about to go home), EP1 has $200.

I have TT in big blind. EP1 limps, MP1 (agressive and unpredictable -- very solid) makes to $3 to go. I am frustrated at this point (and I have tight / weak image at table), and I raise to $10. EP1 flat calls. MP1 thinks hard and calls $7 more.

Flop ($30) Kxx. I check in BB, EP1 checks, MP1 bets pot.

I folded to the pot sized bet, but then thought about it some more and really hate myself for doing it.

Whats the play? I know I should not have checked the flop and then folded, but my thinking is that I either bet out (for at least half my remaining stack) or I can make a decision to check/fold or check / raise in / call. I really didn't want to see a flop with that TT.

I know that MP1 doesn't have AK because he took so long to contemplate a call. The pot is big enough and my stack is short enough that I am getting laid almost 2:1 to push and hope he doesn't have a king. I doubt he has KJ, he might have KQs or something like that. I took EP1 off a king and put him on a little pocket pair, because he plays those way too loosely hoping for a set. I think he has garbage.

They were kind enough to both flip after the hand, so results to come.

[scrub]

Dave--the first thing you need to realize is that your stack isn't short relative to the blinds here. That matters a lot more in this situation than how big your stack is relative to the other players.

Second, if you know that people think you're weak-tight, why play weak tight? Unless the unidentified coldcaller is one of the complete morons who will show you K3o there, you're not going to get called unless someone spiked their set, since they're putting you on AA or KK. And they're right something like 99% of the time... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Since I can rule out some players who I know weren't at the game, I'm going to post under the assumption that MP1 is Sammy. A key component of your player description should have been "raises from EP with trash hands way too often." I'm assuming that's why you decided to reraise him.

I still don't like it. As people have posted here a lot here recently, TT-QQ are great drawing hands. You're getting more than adequate odds to draw to your set, and the odds are that if you flatall and set up (1) Sammy won't slow down until you CR him on the turn and (2) EP1 {Ed/Phyo/Shaka/Jensen/Jesse} will be along for the ride. Many of the likely EP1 candidates will pay you off for the whole 50 with one-pair hands. Recently someone posted the phrase "it can't happen if you don't let it" in reference to a similar situation. I think those are words to live by in the Scully (nee' Tower) game.

If you're just dying to show some backbone here, flatcall and CR the flop when you don't set up. Unless EP1 is one of the true calling stations--then slow down unless you have an overpair. If you have an overpair, CR it--it's good and will get action from EP1 while folding Sammy unless he has an extremely powerful hand. With his open-raising standards, that's not extremely likely. No reason to ruin a nice chance to flop a monster for a good price.

scrub

[Wayfare]

George:

Stack size relative to everyone else is extremely important when deciding whether to call a $2.5 raise with TT out of position. If I am only playing for a set, then I am not getting a good price and I would usually fold.

However, I was semi on tilt due to running into a couple monsters in EP and decided to make a stand. MP1 is indeed Sammy, who seemingly likes to see a flop regardless of his cards and the size of the raise, especially against one "weak" player and one "ridiculously loose" player like Ed (EP1).

My question is: Knowing what I know from the $7 raise of the initial $3, am I showing +EV by check - all-in here?

Here is what I think sammy is thinking:

EV = %hit on flop x payoff if hit on flop + % bluff on flop x $ on flop > $10. If there is only one overcard that helps him and its NOT an ace, and he thought about it that long before calling, I can take him off a ton of hands. I think that the fact that people get most of their jollies pushing me off whatever they seemingly feel like adds a lot into their EV calculations. I should have realized that he was only %30 to hit the flop, know that his hand probably only contains a king if its KQ (and even then he is not drawing all that live against my raise, which very well may be QQ or AK).

I should have just pushed in after he bet the pot. It would have been +EV and good advertising that I can look a pot sized bet up even with TT.

By the way, did you hear about the $280 AA vs. KK hand last night? Or the $300+ KK vs. JJ vs. 77(?!?!) hand pre-flop?

It was relatively crazy to say the least.

[scrub]

You won't have enough money to push sammy off of any pair if you checkraise the flop. He'll be calling your last $10 bucks into a $100 pot, and that's assuming Ed hasn't already coldcalled you. If you're going to take a stab at it you have to push straight out for $40 into the $30 in the pot.

I think you would show a considerable profit with a push on the flop. Once you check to Sammy, you lose the hand unless he calls you down with a lower PP--which he is almost guaranteed to do getting 10:1. Even against you.

When I said that the size of your stack relative to the blinds mattered more than relative stack sizes, I meant that your stack was not small enough to play your TT with gleeful shortstack abandon preflop. If you had had something like $20.00 in front of you, pushing with your TT preflop would have been a viable play. Since you're covered against a calling station and a very aggressive player, the size of your stack relative to the preflop raise (the size of which is usually related to the size of the blinds rather than the size of the stacks in our game) is what determines whether you're getting the right price to call looking for your set.

I didn't hear that much about the game, except that a lot of money was going in preflop with some pretty suspect holdings...

scrub