Help with HEFAP

[Pokerho]

HEFAP is about my 3rd or 4th poker book. I've been playing pretty seriously for 6-8 months, and naturally I am still learning. Perhaps to think that I am an "advanced player" was a bit of a stretch, but I'm a smart guy, and I'm doing rasonably well at my micro-limit game, so I figured i'd give it a shot.

Unfortunately, I find it very difficult to read. It seems like it's about two-hundred pages of "If you have this, then you should do this, unless you think someone has that, in which case you should do that, however if A is true, then the complete opposite is true, unless B is true in which case you should decide your action based on your read of the other players."

My plan is to play another few thousand hands, and then give it another read, and see if any of it actually sinks in. Also, I get the impression that maybe I should just wait until I work up to higher limits to even think about reading it again.

Any thoughts?

[BruceZ]

If you are having this problem, then you should definitely study Hold'Em Poker by Sklansky first if you haven't already done so. It covers many of the same topics as HEPFAP in a similar format, but in less depth, and without nearly as many of the exceptions which you mention. HEP is much shorter, but it will still contain plenty for you to learn, and then HEPFAP will be easier to digest once you've mastered the core concepts in HEP. The extra material in HEPFAP really comes into play as you advance to middle limits or face a wider variety of games. In fact, you eventually learn that poker is really all about exceptions rather than rules, except if you play mainly at low limits then that might not be as true. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Ray Zee]

you are finding out there is more thinking than the simple concepts you get exposed to while learning. all the good players think about these things and have put in enough time playing to be comfortable with the deeper thinking process.
you can learn it now and maybe win while moving up. or be a loser and learn it after that. good luck.

[subq]

I am also tearing into HPFAP at the moment. I have read several other books and I mostly play at micro and low limits.

I find it is definitely more of a "thinking" type book instead of a "what to do" type book. The only weakness I see in the book so far is that most of it is not going to be applicable to low limits (but everyone knows this already) and the writing style is a little hard to follow as it jumps around a lot (this has already been pointed out as well).

Other than that I think it is a good read so far with excellent material.

[ZeeJustin]

Don't memorize all of the suggestions. Instead, follow the writers' line of thinking, and begin to think like a poker player.

Anyone can be taught what to think [at the table]. The key is learning how to think [at the table].

[kiemo]

I bought HEPFAP a few months ago but didnt read it right away. Read other intro books and TOP. So the other day I picked it up to give it a once through.

Confused the hell out of me and what I did read was almost completely non applicable to the micro game I play at.

So I will put it back down for 4-6 months, continue to study the other 'beginner' books, continue to play, and then try reading it again in the future.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
I bought HEPFAP a few months ago but didnt read it right away. Read other intro books and TOP. So the other day I picked it up to give it a once through.

Confused the hell out of me and what I did read was almost completely non applicable to the micro game I play at.

So I will put it back down for 4-6 months, continue to study the other 'beginner' books, continue to play, and then try reading it again in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you will find that while some of the concepts do not apply entirely to the games you play (micro-limits), there will be times when they do, even in micro-limit games. Additionally understanding the theory behind what is discussed throughout this book will improve your play at any level.

[arfsananto]

I have been playing for only a couple of months. I have HEFAP, been trying to study it (along with TOP).
What I've been trying is take a small section, read and try to understand it, then compare it to the games I play in (.05/.10). I try to decide, does it apply to my game? If not, why not, and what should I do in my games in that situation?
Its slow going, but I think its helping.

[kiddo]

Wait a few months and then try to read it again... its a great book trying to teach you how to think, not only "how to play with a set on flop mulitway" or something like that.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been playing for only a couple of months. I have HEFAP, been trying to study it (along with TOP).
What I've been trying is take a small section, read and try to understand it, then compare it to the games I play in (.05/.10). I try to decide, does it apply to my game? If not, why not, and what should I do in my games in that situation?
Its slow going, but I think its helping.

[/ QUOTE ]

It certainly is a slow process, as Mason said in GTOT, well this may not be an exact quote, if poker were easy to beat, then everyone would be playing it and winning. I think you are on the right track as to what you need to do.

[Roy Hobbs]

You can go back to this book, and others like it, several times early in your poker career and pick up something new every time (i.e., things that did not make sense before will remind you of an experience that you had at the table the night before).

RH

[webiggy]

Hey Pokerho,

My suggestion to anyone having trouble with HEPFAP is that (s)he read Winning Low Limit Hold'em First. I think that both S&M agree it has some strong material for good solid hold'em strategies. The format and concepts are easy to digest. What I found very helpful are his starting hands listing at the beginning of the first few chapters. You can actually make a chart of them if you like to help you. Also Abdul Jalib has an article re: starting hands that can help.

Re: HEPFAP - this is not a book to read, but rather study. To that point, in order to study the text, one has to identify which parts of the text are key to success. To that end, I've taken the approach of transcribing the "Questions and Answers" portion of the book, sans answers, and use a printed copy of questions as study companion as I sit with the text.

I recommend that you do the same with any of the 2+2 books and I'll bet that you'll get alot more our of it.

Note to the Authors and Publishers - If I can be so bold as to suggest that since alot of your audience members are not your intellectual equals, consider highlighting the specific points that your text attempts to address so that the readers can keep these thoughts in mind so that they can read the text with a more proactive approach and thus allow them to get more out of the book during the first read. Just my $0.02..,

Good luck,

Iggy

[bosulli]

I am in the boat you are in. I read HEFAP and was not sure if I absorbed much, and was a little confused. I am reading the 2nd time, and going to the questions in the back immediatly after reading a major section. I have begun to recoginize the main concepts, and the "logic model" presented. It is a trees and forrest deal. Read it again and look for the trees then forrest will make more sense. I will read for a third time as soon as get thru the with this read. If they don't use a "technical writing editor", I wish they would.

[Sarge85]

I'm still waiting for a "Cliffs Notes" version of this book.

I think these fourms are the best study guide that go with it. I think if you continue to read the fourms, and you see some "gems" toggle them as favorites. Routinely go through them, or print them, and try to match up the postings to different parts of the book. Make sense?

Then as you read and re-read chapters, you can pull the postings, and see the points the books point out in practice.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[midas]

Recently purchased HEFAP and also was a little dismayed with the "If this happens then do A, unless you think this then do B but if you think C then fold" type of writing. This fact is - this is the real world of poker but it doesn't translate into writing that well. I have 2 suggestions.

1. Read the questions first then read the sections of the book that apply to the questions.

2. If you can't afford real money experience - combine the book with Turbo Hold'em experience - this will quickly make you a solid beginner player in real money games and limit your financial downside while learning the more advanced moves of outplaying opponents. I know the authors are not fans of Turbo, but it is a great beginner's tool - maybe the authors could re-tune the program to their own specs and roll out a 2+2 version.

[eh923]

Keep in mind that HEFAP isn't a novel. After a session, think about hands that caused problems (e.g. - you got killed playing small pocket pairs), and read the sections related to that part of your game.

I recommend getting software such as PokerTracker. It's great since it can help you find your leaks. Then, hit HEFAP to address these areas.

[el_grande]

After you know every part of WLLHE, then start using HEFAP as a reference guide. After having it as your main book for many months, reading it over and over you will slowly absorb it. At least that's what I've found. I've proably read it 3 times and I think I've absorbed almost half of it.