Need Help with Home Game Strategy

[JTrout]

Maybe this should be posted somewhere else, but I thought it might get the best results here, so:

I've recently found a home game that I think should be profitable, if I can make some adjustments. It's half holdem, half Omaha hi.
The dealer pays a $5 blind. Players can call the $5, or raise it to $15.
Flop and turn bets are $10, with 3 raises max.
Player can bet $10 or $20 on river, with 3 raises. 80% of time the bet is $20 on river.

The game is usually 9 handed, with 3 or 4 very loose fish, and 2 or 3 solid players. Seldom is it overly aggressive (wild).

I've played 3 nights with following results: +215, -340, -260.
I think this game should be +EV for me, but I do need to make some adjustments.
I am far and away the tightest player in the game.
I am the only player who might be considered "scared money".
I feel like I'm almost playing with my cards face-up.

On one hand, I feel playing tight is appropriate because it costs only $5 per 9 hands, and I'd like to minimize variance.
On the other hand, I think I've got to loosen up because I'm too predictable, and the good implied odds with the big bet on the end.

I'm quite sure I've done more reading, and studying of the game than the other players combined, but most of my play has been small stakes online. I've done well in these games.
But most of the other players have played much bigger stakes, and have played poker for many more years than me.
They definately have an edge in people- reading skills.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post, but I do want to give you as much info as I can.

Any thoughts on adjusting to the different structure and overcoming my "open-book" approach to this game are greatly appreciated.

To summarize, I think I'm way ahead pre-flop when I play, but often getting out-played from there on.

Cheers,
JTrout.

[HDPM]

I think the structure dictates pretty tight play. And so does limit omaha hi. Your only advantage in that game will be playing tight probably. Are you having more trouble on the holdem or omaha protion.

I would review the 2+2 materials on structure. There is a section in TOP on it that talks about it I think. Or maybe it was in the old version of the regular Holdem Poker by Sklansky book. He compares the structures of the old structure games at the golden nugget. They were different from each other and different from the structure today. SOme of the materials in the Poker Essays book address it too.

I would say in general that with a raise to 15 preflop and the bet 10 on the flop and turn, the implied odds hands are worse. Even with the 20 on the end. Maybe plays more like a 2-5 game or something. Big cards baby.

I would not try to add deception in omaha really. If you need to mix up your play I would do it in the holdem and try to do it cheap. But these players just might be pretty good postflop, so you will have to improve all around and not just do a few things to be a little harder to read.

[DcifrThs]

this structure dictates tight play but river payoff %'s and agressiveness may require some draws to be added in a late position.

muck jts and small pairs early. if you do come in early you almost CERTAINLY should raise and therefore need a hand that strong to do it. also, steal raise less!! if its checked to you (unlikely 'cause home game and fishiness) and its just you and the blind left you shouldn't steal as much since the blind has position on you for the rest of the hand.

if you see many people coming in all the time with all sorts of stuff AND are paying off when paired or anything interesting happens to them on river then you should play those draws late. but make sure they're good draws. 5/6 outers aren't worth it. but MAY be worth a semi-bluff raise against one 'solid' player who sees you playing so tight and bets right infront of you (ats qtxflop with a bd flush draw as well would be worth a raise if 2 players check to the solid guy and he bets and the players won't call those two bets cold to see the turn.)

i'm no expert and you may want to take my recommendations with a grain (or two or three) of salt but i think playing in the manner i suggest would improve your results a bit (i hope).

good luck
-Barron

[JTrout]

Thanks for the reply. I'll certainly review the materials you suggested.

I hadn't thought of the worse implied idea. It makes sense, because most hands are raised pre-flop. But the play is so loose that you see all kinds of inferior hands.

I agree with you that tight(big cards) is right. But the tight play is definately making me too predictable.

I had not played Omaha Hi before these three sessions. I'm reading Ciaffone's Omaha book, but I've got some catching up to do with the players in this game that've played it for years.

Hopefully this Wed. night I'll get back on track.

Time to put up the skis, and dust off the irons!
JTrout.

[JTrout]

Thanks for the advice. Very good stuff.

I definately need to be coming in for a raise more, and limping less. And picking a good place to semi-bluff every now and then is something I've got to improve on. It wouldn't hurt my too tight image either!

Hopefully I can put this advice to good use.
JTrout.

[shemp]

So, let's see if I have the particulars: You are in a game with a betting structure you don't understand, 1/2 the time you are playing a game you don't know how to play, you are playing higher than you are comfortable with and your opponents know it, you are the least experienced player.

To win at poker, begin at the beginning -- which isn't preflop hand selection -- it's game and seat selection. So who's the fish in this game and why?

The button is huge in that game, start with that if the above seems besides the point.

[JTrout]

Yep. You've got the particulars! I think you've hit the nail on the head. Oh yeah, and I left out one other very important factor- the house rakes $5 out of every $100 pot. Ouch.

HOWever:
There are 3 or 4 regulars in this game that are big time donators. Although they have been playing for decades, they are still fish. The money means little to them, they play any two (or 4) for a raise, and pay off to the river.

and:
I don't think I'm your typical fish. I would like to think that my learning curve in Omaha Hi will be sharp. I am tight. And I'll become more comfortable in the game (hopefully) with a few more sittings.
I have played some
10-20 in games that were wilder, looser than this one. But it was awhile back, and I've spent the last several months mostly online 3-6 and lower.
"Scared money" is somewhat accurate, but more accurate is that I just don't have as much gamble in me as these players. They're all about craps, and bookies, and so forth.
I don't care to gamble.
This game has been going on (and off) for 12 years, and I expect it to continue. I think their is +EV for me in this game. I may be wrong. But I'll risk a little to find out, because the upside could be 10k per year.

But I've got to improve. And I'm taking steps. Posting here is one.

I do appreciate your input.
JTrout.

ps. How much do I loosen up on the button? How much do I loosen up my raising standard? Suppose 3 limpers, what type of hands do you raise? I would think many suited connectors, to make tha pot big enough to keep them in if I flop good, and to get them to check to me. Medium pairs for same reason? KT? A9? that seems improper.

[shemp]

Take great care with your seat selection, trying to find a place that you can exploit whatever peculiar fishiness the fish have. A steep rake with 3 solid players and 3-4 donators isn't necessarily as juicy as it sounds without a good seat -- partly because of the premium on the button.

As far as the trade off between the low-ante and the big river, you seem to have a rough idea. Up front, I'd say play very tight and, even, a bit passive particularly on later rounds, trying to protect my passivity with some river check-raises when I feel I fixed someone on a hand -- you can't be betting and then paying off much on the river, you'll need to value bet, but first try to establish that you aren't one to be value bet up front. Again, learning to checkraise is important. On the button I'd say play whatever you can stomach, partly to show them some gamble, but also to get two river bets when you suck out or hit huge. The button is emphasized because you are last to act on all rounds, and the river is a larger bet. Drawing, Value betting, everything else, is just better from the button, you need to seem some hands, and that is where to do it from.

As for your specific questions, raise on the button with a lot of cheesier stuff -- but KT or A9? Come'on.

For your image problem, preflop, up front, you might *occasionally* do some goofier limp-reraises hoping to flop quads -- I'd be more inclined with pairs than suited stuff, but anything fair share+ is reasonable. The hope is to show some action, and pretend that you are willing to draw up front, when actually you are looking for huge flops -- I don't know if I could do this in Omaha -- it took me a while to learn handreading and how to value hands in Omaha particularly on the flop and turn, and I'm still a fish, so I suspect you need to be very careful in this game for quite awhile.

[JTrout]

Shemp,
Thank you.
JTrout.