MS Sunshine
03-08-2004, 04:50 PM
I said I didn't wish to post anymore on this subject, but I can't help myself after Dutch's evil minions had their say. Most of these posts are just that. Russ never liked to deal with us directly, but with spin DR.s under different names, it was much easier then. Russ lied about important info for six months then muffed a chance to pay back about a 1000 players because there was not enough in it for him. Russ took the assets of PokerSpot, which he promised to sell to satisify his debts to us. If www.rakefree.com (http://www.rakefree.com) ever gets off the ground, someone invests in it, the first thing to do to make it work is to separate Russ's name from it. Which means that software will get transfered/leased/sold to www.rakefree,com and if Russ holds on to this cash from them for an instant we will still never get paid.
MS Sunshine
Pokerspot Update
Posted by: Russ Boyd (boyd@pokerspot.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 17 March 2001, at 3:27 a.m.
Dear Pokerspot Players,
As many of you are aware, several weeks ago we began experiencing problems with our then current credit card processor, Net Pro, Ltd. We promptly stopped processing through Net Pro and have since been unable to take new player deposits or process cashouts. We are pleased to announce that we recently signed an agreement with Surefire Commerce, the most trusted name in the online gaming processing community, to process all future player deposits. All cashouts requested after March 15* will now be processed as normal.
In addition, we also are pleased to announce we are at a point where we can start repaying prior cashouts. All cashouts that have been requested prior to the 15th of March will be paid according to the following schedule:
20% by April 15; 20% by May 15; 20% by June 15; 20% by July 15; and 40% by August 15.
Please note that we will be paying all players who cashed out in January or February an additional 20% of their cashout as interest. We are pursuing several different avenues that might allow us the opportunity to pay all players before the above dates, including a lawsuit against Net Pro, Ltd., some short-term loans using the software as collateral, and a pending licensing deal.
Once again, we apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this situation has caused our players. We recognize that there has been quite a bit of damage to our reputation as a result of Net Pro, Ltd. and Barclays Bank freezing the player funds, and we can only hope that our reputation will be repaired once we are able to pay all of our players.
On a side note, our service provider has upgraded our bandwidth to an optical fiber connection. You should notice decreased latency, and increased playability. When new developments arise, we will keep you updated. In the meantime, we hope to see you on the site.
Sincerely,
The Pokerspot Team
* - Please note that this does not include cashouts made prior to March 15 that have been re-applied to a player's account.
Looks like we get paid
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 17 March 2001, at 4:42 a.m.
Well it looks like we'll get paid. We all wish that this did not happen but sometimes things happen that we have no control over. I believe this is what happen to PokerSpot.
Yes, I plan to continue to play there. I happen to like the players that play there. They just seem like real people and it's been a real pleasure playing with them.
As to the players who were very upset about not getting paid right away and wanted people thrown in some jail. I think you have to see that honest people can't always do what should be done,but, do everything they can.
I think internet poker is here to stay. It will have problems that will be solved and some that will not.It is not the poker that you have grow used to,but it is here to stay.
MS Sunshine
======== COPY of their latest message PokerSpot ==== Hi, We've been extremely busy here at Pokerspot processing all the cashouts. So far, they are all on schedule, both the older ones and the most recent ones. We are preparing a large batch to be mailed on Monday along with all the emails to players whose cashouts have been processed.
Instead of sending checks, we are sending bank drafts, which are more trustworthy than checks. We fax instructions to our bank, and then they print the bank draft and mail it. However, since our bank has to process and send them from Nevis, it could take a week or two to be received by everyone. Still, the good news is that cashouts are, in fact, being processed. And no bounced checks with the bank drafts!
In other news, Net Pro threw up a small procedural hurdle in the lawsuit. However, our lawyers expected it and are confident in their ability to overcome it.
Happy Easter, Pokerspot.com
====== end of POKERSPOT message ===========
PokerSpot's fraudulent chips(long)
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 10 July 2001, at 4:58 a.m.
My wife and I have played with about 170 players on PokerSpot since about Jan. 15th. After we had bought in we heard in the chat about some problems with a few Dec. cashouts. Almost right away everyone heard about Netpro's assets being frozen by Barclays. There was some talk about fraudulent credit card buys.
The regulars told of similar problems in the past, which got straightened out or almost from what I learned later. Since the $20-40 game was excellent compared to what we had been playing for the last 9 months, we continued to play.
At about this time, a California court ruled in favor of a woman who owed $60,000 to her bank for losses on internet gambling sites using her credit cards to buy-in.
Since PokerSpot's credit card processor was out of business, no one could buy-in to the site for months. With the change in law from this Ca. case the credit card companies made it very differcult to buy-in at any poker site. For everyone that was playing at PokerSpot at this time, we didn't need to know all this. We knew from playing there that no one, new or old was buying anything on his credit card.
Now, this is the time frame when up to $250,000 was bought fraudulently according to e-mails with Russ. His statement, along with the spin created from having an investigation and fraud detection software to discover who the fraudulent chips were dumped to, made it seem that PokerSpot was acting responsibly. There were 57 large winners being checked out to see which ones were involved in this fraudulent credit card scam.
The problem is no one was buying in to the site. Fraudulent credit card buyins makes you think this is stolen credit cards. Right? All the early problems, I've been told, were not stolen credit cards, but California card holders who, after discovering that PokerSpot was not paying, contacted their banks to receive charge-backs on their buyins. Now, the banks must have notified PokerSpot right away about this. Maybe PokerSpot reacted as quickly as they do to e-mails sent to them by their customers.
PokerSpot did not tell their players of any fraudulent chips inquiries in Janurary. There were only two games on the site daily, someone should have noticed upwards of $250,000 in fraudulent buyins at this time.
I was first told of this problem 3 months later as I was waiting for my first check. It seems that I had played with ten of these players. A P.I. was in CA checking into the fraudulent buyins. After being investgated for awhile I was told that I lost $400 to these players. I then received my only check from PokerSpot and it was 1/3 less than what it was supposed to be.
Russ told me that there was no problem with me, but they would only be able to give me an amount less than what I was supposed to get. When it arrived it was half what we had discussed.
Now, six months later, PokerSpot is trying to transfer the losses caused by their mismanagement to a few players that still have some decent amount of money left on their poker site.
This is not fair. We won this money. We did our jobs right. We spendt over a thousand hours playing on your site, paying rake, listening to empty promises and worrying about you getting financing so you could pay us all off.
If in a live poker room, someone got a marker for $20,000 and lost it in a poker game, the owner would never come up to the big winner, months later asking for the player's win back, because the player didn't pay his marker. Some gaming control board would tell the owner to take his loss and give the player what is due to him.
Russ and the new investor in PokerSpot, You still owe my wife and I over $56,000. We won this money fairly and have been, along with many others, treated very shabbily by PokerSpot.
Maybe you can convince yourself that if most people are paid and you can slander the few winners left and not pay them, that your site will come back. I don't think this is the case. I think they will take the money and run, not walk, to the nearest exit. What you should be doing is paying everyone, every dollar you owe them. Then explain to them the steps you have taken to see that this never happens again.
MS Sunshine
POKERSPOT- The Final Word (s)
Posted by: neal ross (daytrader28@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 12 July 2001, at 12:14 a.m.
Hello Pokerspot Players, I am disappointed over the general response to what i consider good news, if true, about the future of Pokerspot. I have now spent more hours on this site than anyone with the exception of Ms. Sunshine whose problem i will address next. Concerning the fraudulent chip problem, if player (s) bought in with chips that eventually were not paid for, i as the owner would not feel obligated to pay the players who ended up with these chips. I think bosox14's (ryan) point about the fairness of tracking down these chips is well taken, however, i trust we will have to live with the decision of management in this case and vote with our feet if we are not happy with the decision. Now, Ms Sunshine, i have played many hours of shorthanded and heads-up play against you, i would estimate that totalling up our play against each other we are probably about even-steven which brings me to this conclusion if you really do have 56k in your account somthing is wrong and i will leave it up to Russ Boyd to sort it out. I have played as many hours of internet poker the past two years as anyone out there bar none, for you to have won 56k in three months or even less is just not possible without something being wrong, you are not that good of a player at best you are my equal and my results are only in the neighborhood of 25% of yours. So sunshine, i would just cool your jets, because i think you are about to open pandora's box.
Re: POKERSPOT- The Final Word (s)
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 12 July 2001, at 1:24 a.m.
Oh, really. I didn't mind you implying I maybe a thief, but when you say "I'm your equal in playing ability", well those are fighting words.
Every gaming site has some credit card problems. They don't steal their other players money to make it up. With about a total of $100K in everyone's bankroll, how can you have $50K up to $250K in fraudulent chips? Where did the money($50K) for the freerolls come from?
"Cool my jets"? While the remaining money is given to other players most who never bought into the site and a toady who trys to entice unsuspecting players onto a site that is not paying anyone?
I and a few other players are not good enough to win what we have, so we shouldn't be paid? What if I'm not this good as a poker player, but have just been lucky, shouldn't I get the money I won over a half a year anyways?
Where was pokerspot when all these people were buying in with these "fraudulent" chips? You know, they were not there, no one was there. They came to the only game on site and asked how to buyin and we told them they couldn't. Neal, don't you get it? There wasn't this mass credit card scam. PokerSpot, then and now, still doesn't have the money to pay people what they owe them. This may never change.
The only "box" I want to open, is the one with $56,000 of my money in it.
When you talk to Russ again, please let him know if he would continue to lie to me I wouldn't be posting this on the 'net. I would sit patiently sit at home waiting for the money he said was on the way. When he starts with this "we are looking into you again stuff" and not responding to my email then I feel, well like this is all I'm going to get for my $56,000.
With $56,000 on account, and the others with large amounts, we are being given nothing. Did we steal all of this? If we have $1 fraudulent dollar, does that mean we receive nothing?
I'm sorry I have to stop now. My wife says this is not healthy for me. I think she means the screaming and pounding, but I could be wrong.
MS Sunshine
The stain of fraudulent dollars(long)
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Friday, 13 July 2001, at 6:02 p.m.
I seem to be having a problem with the settings on my ACME Fruadulent Dollars Detection software. It seems that this is alot more complex than I first thought. When is a fraudulent dollar first born? Is it when it is first conceived?(credit card purchase) or when it breaths it first breath("Hey Russ, You know that guy, who you couldn't pay? He's unbuyed in").
What if someone wins money in the freerolls, plays $4-8 holdem with Neal for awhile and turns his bankroll into about a dime. He comes up to the Bigs and gets his head handed to him. El Busto gets the plastic out and buys in. He plays $2-4 for awhile and goes broke. He thinks about that buyin and has his bank charge it back on his credit card when hears no one is getting paid. Now is the money he lost in the $20-40 tainted from the later fraudulent dollars?
Now, he is playing three handed $20-40 with MS Sunshine and Backlash(before the 33 days of hell). Fraudulent Dollar Man is beating the hell out of Backlash. He now has twice as much fraudulent dollars as before. Can he now lose more fraudulent dollars than he bought in for to MS Sunshine? Who in turn loses it back to Bachlash. Now, MS Sunshine breaks even for the night. Does Backlash have no fraudulent dollars? In fact might he have a credit of fraudulent dollars? Now, poor, poor MS Sunshine broke even, but has more fraudulent dollars than Fraudulent Dollar Man bought into the game with?
What if MS Sunshine only has $1,000 fraudulent dollars in his account? Should he get paid some part of the other $55,000 with everyone else. What if there is no money when the ACME fraud software is done. Is there any chance he will get paid in some other later round of checks?
Wouldn't it be easier to do a sort of everyone who have cashouts pending? Then open up our wallet and see how much money we have to pay players. Better hold out some of your players money for freerolls, servers and trips overseas to look for investors.
Now, here's the tricky part, start at the bottom and add up all the cashouts till you run out of money, then draw a line. Everyone about the line is accused of having some fraudulent dolllars in their account, except Daytrader who some how missed all those fraudulent dollars in the system.
I'm sorry, but I have to stop now. My wife says it's time to take my medication. Usually I get sleepy after I take it. So, have a nice day.
MS Sunshine
MS SUNSHINE -you are full of XXXXX
Posted by: neal ross (daytrader28@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 15 July 2001, at 11:08 p.m.
In the latest post by Ms Sunshine he/she or maybe ET claims to have won $30,000 since March, there has not been enough action at the site since then even if Ms Sunshine won each and every hand they played which i can assure you they did not, i would go so far as to say at best they have braoken even or lost a small amount since March. This latest post gives rise to me, at least, that indeed Sunshine has been engaged in some sort of fraudulent activity on the site and I call on Russ Boyd to look very carefully at the scripts imeediately.
PokerSpot
Posted by: Poker Chef (bss317@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 31 July 2001, at 7:32 p.m.
I know that most of you, as I am, are numb to any topics relating to Poker Spot. However, I recieved an email from them today in response to my request for a cashout. You can read it below. Funny thing is the date of the original email that i sent to them that they have just responded was May 22. FU Boyd!!!
I have really got to let this go. ********************************** Ticket Status: resolved Hello, Unfortunately, cashouts are currently on hold. However, an investment deal is currently in its final stages, and we expect to begin processing cashouts again in the very near future. Additionally, our lawsuit against our former credit card processor (for release of the funds still owed to us) is making steady progress. Thank you for your patience. Sincerely, Pokerspot.com Customer Support
Pokerspot Support Team support@pokerspot.com http://www.pokerspot.com/
John,
We're still compiling the data regarding money owed. We've sorted through
all of our bank statements and cashed checks through 5/1/01 and I do not
have any record of you cashing a PSI check. That would indicate that all
cashouts are still pending. Currently, it seems that there is a total of
$56,838 outstanding.
There is still quite a bit of information we must review before we begin the
settlement process, including credit card chargebacks, information post
5/1/01, cashouts which were returned to your account, and fraudulent charges
and wins.
I'd like to point out that I rarely respond to players these days. This is
due to a number of factors. We have quite a few players who are owed
considerable sums of money. We do not have any support personnel left. All
of our efforts are aimed at fixing this situation. Unfortunately, that
leaves us with little time to reassure players. At this point, actions
speak louder than words and the only thing which will reassure anyone is a
check in hand.
This project left our company insolvent. If it weren't for the fact that we
own a valuable asset in our software, everyone involved in the project,
including investors, employees, and players, would be out a great deal of
time and money. As it stands now, we should be able to mitigate the damage
caused to us.
That's all I have to say right now. You'll hear more from us in the coming
weeks and months as we go through the settlement process.
Sincerely,
Russ Boyd
Russ,
Until now, I have stayed silent amidst all of the RGP controversy you
create. But that was until you attacked Paul Westley, who, if you
spend the rest of your life trying to develop integrity and character,
will still be twice the man you will ever be. Furthermore, after
reading your posts, which change every day, I have become sickened to
the point that I feel compelled to share my little part in your saga.
My involvement with Russ Boyd and Pokerspot:
In Spring of 2001, I was working with a partner in Boston and some
venture capitalists from Kansas City to develop an internet poker
site. Several poker celebrities that post on this site had been
contracted to work with the site and we were in the final stages of
acquiring software.
Seeing the difficulty that Pokerspot was experiencing, we approached
Russ with an offer to either buy his company outright, or to license
his software. Russ agreed that the idea sounded good and we arranged
to meet in Boston for a sitdown to discuss the possible arrangements.
Upon meeting Russ, I was extraordinarily impressed with how highly
Russ thought of himself. However, he was very smooth, if a little
oily, and we spoke in depth about his predicament and the
opportunities still available.
We were very interested in the intellectual and non-tangible property
that Pokerspot owned: mailing lists, software, patents, etc. We came
up with an offer that we presented to Russ in the late Spring. The
offer included paying off all of the debts of Pokerspot (which Russ
stated was $300,000 at that time) $200,000 for Russ, and 10% in the
new company, which we had decided to call PokerScene. Russ agreed to
the stipulations, and we sent him a draft. Russ signed a copy of the
draft and returned it to me by FedEx.
At this point, we contacted our venture capitalist and prepared to
arrange for finalizing the financial transactions. The next day, Russ
and I were talking on the phone I made mention of the non-compete
clause and he laughed at me. I asked what was funny and he replied
that I didn't think he was actually going to get out of this industry,
did I? I directed him to the draft that he had signed which included
that we received all intellectual rights, mailing lists, patents, etc.
and that he would not be eligible to work in the industry for 3 years
(might have been 2). He got the contract, looked at it, agreed that
was what it meant, agreed that he had signed it, and then said there
was no way he was going to honor it, and that if we wanted all of
those things, we would have to pay him over $1,000,000 (I think he
said he had an offer from a company for 1.2 Mil, but at this point, I
was rolling on the ground laughing my ass off.) I asked him if he was
serious. He stated that he was and that he thought that even at those
terms, we would be getting an incredibly great deal. It was at this
point that I realized that Russ was amoral, unethical, megalomaniacal,
and probably insane. I informed him that he was out of his mind and
was probably passing up the best deal he was going to find.
My backers, upon seeing the deal fall through, developed cold feet,
withdrew and the deal died. The based their decision in part on
feeling that if people like Russ were indicative of the people in the
industry, they wanted no part of it. So, in a way, Russ actually
helped to kill two internet poker companies. But he did have a signed
contract that would have taken care of his debts to Pokerspots
customers and left him smelling a lot sweeter than the drunkard
offering his futures for $5K that he claims to be.
Russ,
I have seen you three times since then and, like Paul, have been nice
to you. This was not because I like you, it was because I felt sorry
for you and believed that you still deserved some basic human dignity.
I have changed my mind. I believe that you are completely devoid of
any character whatsoever, and that until you start to truly accept
that you are responsible for your actions that you will never be
anything more than a spoiled child prodigy gone bad. Nobody cares how
smart you are or what a brilliant poker player you feel you are. What
people do care about Russ is that you are slimy, and the more you
speak, the more obvious that becomes. When you attack people like
Paul, who went out of his way to not say bad things about you, you are
out of your league. In the future, be abundantly clear, I do not want
to hang out, have a drink, or talk about future business.
Burton Ritchie
Now my question for Russ, Dutch and his evil minions is:
Why did you not sell the PokerSpot software instead of taking it to your next venture?
It was the major asset of PokerSpot and should have been sold at the best possible price to pay creditors(us here) some of what is owed.
MS Sunshine
MS Sunshine
Pokerspot Update
Posted by: Russ Boyd (boyd@pokerspot.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 17 March 2001, at 3:27 a.m.
Dear Pokerspot Players,
As many of you are aware, several weeks ago we began experiencing problems with our then current credit card processor, Net Pro, Ltd. We promptly stopped processing through Net Pro and have since been unable to take new player deposits or process cashouts. We are pleased to announce that we recently signed an agreement with Surefire Commerce, the most trusted name in the online gaming processing community, to process all future player deposits. All cashouts requested after March 15* will now be processed as normal.
In addition, we also are pleased to announce we are at a point where we can start repaying prior cashouts. All cashouts that have been requested prior to the 15th of March will be paid according to the following schedule:
20% by April 15; 20% by May 15; 20% by June 15; 20% by July 15; and 40% by August 15.
Please note that we will be paying all players who cashed out in January or February an additional 20% of their cashout as interest. We are pursuing several different avenues that might allow us the opportunity to pay all players before the above dates, including a lawsuit against Net Pro, Ltd., some short-term loans using the software as collateral, and a pending licensing deal.
Once again, we apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this situation has caused our players. We recognize that there has been quite a bit of damage to our reputation as a result of Net Pro, Ltd. and Barclays Bank freezing the player funds, and we can only hope that our reputation will be repaired once we are able to pay all of our players.
On a side note, our service provider has upgraded our bandwidth to an optical fiber connection. You should notice decreased latency, and increased playability. When new developments arise, we will keep you updated. In the meantime, we hope to see you on the site.
Sincerely,
The Pokerspot Team
* - Please note that this does not include cashouts made prior to March 15 that have been re-applied to a player's account.
Looks like we get paid
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 17 March 2001, at 4:42 a.m.
Well it looks like we'll get paid. We all wish that this did not happen but sometimes things happen that we have no control over. I believe this is what happen to PokerSpot.
Yes, I plan to continue to play there. I happen to like the players that play there. They just seem like real people and it's been a real pleasure playing with them.
As to the players who were very upset about not getting paid right away and wanted people thrown in some jail. I think you have to see that honest people can't always do what should be done,but, do everything they can.
I think internet poker is here to stay. It will have problems that will be solved and some that will not.It is not the poker that you have grow used to,but it is here to stay.
MS Sunshine
======== COPY of their latest message PokerSpot ==== Hi, We've been extremely busy here at Pokerspot processing all the cashouts. So far, they are all on schedule, both the older ones and the most recent ones. We are preparing a large batch to be mailed on Monday along with all the emails to players whose cashouts have been processed.
Instead of sending checks, we are sending bank drafts, which are more trustworthy than checks. We fax instructions to our bank, and then they print the bank draft and mail it. However, since our bank has to process and send them from Nevis, it could take a week or two to be received by everyone. Still, the good news is that cashouts are, in fact, being processed. And no bounced checks with the bank drafts!
In other news, Net Pro threw up a small procedural hurdle in the lawsuit. However, our lawyers expected it and are confident in their ability to overcome it.
Happy Easter, Pokerspot.com
====== end of POKERSPOT message ===========
PokerSpot's fraudulent chips(long)
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 10 July 2001, at 4:58 a.m.
My wife and I have played with about 170 players on PokerSpot since about Jan. 15th. After we had bought in we heard in the chat about some problems with a few Dec. cashouts. Almost right away everyone heard about Netpro's assets being frozen by Barclays. There was some talk about fraudulent credit card buys.
The regulars told of similar problems in the past, which got straightened out or almost from what I learned later. Since the $20-40 game was excellent compared to what we had been playing for the last 9 months, we continued to play.
At about this time, a California court ruled in favor of a woman who owed $60,000 to her bank for losses on internet gambling sites using her credit cards to buy-in.
Since PokerSpot's credit card processor was out of business, no one could buy-in to the site for months. With the change in law from this Ca. case the credit card companies made it very differcult to buy-in at any poker site. For everyone that was playing at PokerSpot at this time, we didn't need to know all this. We knew from playing there that no one, new or old was buying anything on his credit card.
Now, this is the time frame when up to $250,000 was bought fraudulently according to e-mails with Russ. His statement, along with the spin created from having an investigation and fraud detection software to discover who the fraudulent chips were dumped to, made it seem that PokerSpot was acting responsibly. There were 57 large winners being checked out to see which ones were involved in this fraudulent credit card scam.
The problem is no one was buying in to the site. Fraudulent credit card buyins makes you think this is stolen credit cards. Right? All the early problems, I've been told, were not stolen credit cards, but California card holders who, after discovering that PokerSpot was not paying, contacted their banks to receive charge-backs on their buyins. Now, the banks must have notified PokerSpot right away about this. Maybe PokerSpot reacted as quickly as they do to e-mails sent to them by their customers.
PokerSpot did not tell their players of any fraudulent chips inquiries in Janurary. There were only two games on the site daily, someone should have noticed upwards of $250,000 in fraudulent buyins at this time.
I was first told of this problem 3 months later as I was waiting for my first check. It seems that I had played with ten of these players. A P.I. was in CA checking into the fraudulent buyins. After being investgated for awhile I was told that I lost $400 to these players. I then received my only check from PokerSpot and it was 1/3 less than what it was supposed to be.
Russ told me that there was no problem with me, but they would only be able to give me an amount less than what I was supposed to get. When it arrived it was half what we had discussed.
Now, six months later, PokerSpot is trying to transfer the losses caused by their mismanagement to a few players that still have some decent amount of money left on their poker site.
This is not fair. We won this money. We did our jobs right. We spendt over a thousand hours playing on your site, paying rake, listening to empty promises and worrying about you getting financing so you could pay us all off.
If in a live poker room, someone got a marker for $20,000 and lost it in a poker game, the owner would never come up to the big winner, months later asking for the player's win back, because the player didn't pay his marker. Some gaming control board would tell the owner to take his loss and give the player what is due to him.
Russ and the new investor in PokerSpot, You still owe my wife and I over $56,000. We won this money fairly and have been, along with many others, treated very shabbily by PokerSpot.
Maybe you can convince yourself that if most people are paid and you can slander the few winners left and not pay them, that your site will come back. I don't think this is the case. I think they will take the money and run, not walk, to the nearest exit. What you should be doing is paying everyone, every dollar you owe them. Then explain to them the steps you have taken to see that this never happens again.
MS Sunshine
POKERSPOT- The Final Word (s)
Posted by: neal ross (daytrader28@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 12 July 2001, at 12:14 a.m.
Hello Pokerspot Players, I am disappointed over the general response to what i consider good news, if true, about the future of Pokerspot. I have now spent more hours on this site than anyone with the exception of Ms. Sunshine whose problem i will address next. Concerning the fraudulent chip problem, if player (s) bought in with chips that eventually were not paid for, i as the owner would not feel obligated to pay the players who ended up with these chips. I think bosox14's (ryan) point about the fairness of tracking down these chips is well taken, however, i trust we will have to live with the decision of management in this case and vote with our feet if we are not happy with the decision. Now, Ms Sunshine, i have played many hours of shorthanded and heads-up play against you, i would estimate that totalling up our play against each other we are probably about even-steven which brings me to this conclusion if you really do have 56k in your account somthing is wrong and i will leave it up to Russ Boyd to sort it out. I have played as many hours of internet poker the past two years as anyone out there bar none, for you to have won 56k in three months or even less is just not possible without something being wrong, you are not that good of a player at best you are my equal and my results are only in the neighborhood of 25% of yours. So sunshine, i would just cool your jets, because i think you are about to open pandora's box.
Re: POKERSPOT- The Final Word (s)
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 12 July 2001, at 1:24 a.m.
Oh, really. I didn't mind you implying I maybe a thief, but when you say "I'm your equal in playing ability", well those are fighting words.
Every gaming site has some credit card problems. They don't steal their other players money to make it up. With about a total of $100K in everyone's bankroll, how can you have $50K up to $250K in fraudulent chips? Where did the money($50K) for the freerolls come from?
"Cool my jets"? While the remaining money is given to other players most who never bought into the site and a toady who trys to entice unsuspecting players onto a site that is not paying anyone?
I and a few other players are not good enough to win what we have, so we shouldn't be paid? What if I'm not this good as a poker player, but have just been lucky, shouldn't I get the money I won over a half a year anyways?
Where was pokerspot when all these people were buying in with these "fraudulent" chips? You know, they were not there, no one was there. They came to the only game on site and asked how to buyin and we told them they couldn't. Neal, don't you get it? There wasn't this mass credit card scam. PokerSpot, then and now, still doesn't have the money to pay people what they owe them. This may never change.
The only "box" I want to open, is the one with $56,000 of my money in it.
When you talk to Russ again, please let him know if he would continue to lie to me I wouldn't be posting this on the 'net. I would sit patiently sit at home waiting for the money he said was on the way. When he starts with this "we are looking into you again stuff" and not responding to my email then I feel, well like this is all I'm going to get for my $56,000.
With $56,000 on account, and the others with large amounts, we are being given nothing. Did we steal all of this? If we have $1 fraudulent dollar, does that mean we receive nothing?
I'm sorry I have to stop now. My wife says this is not healthy for me. I think she means the screaming and pounding, but I could be wrong.
MS Sunshine
The stain of fraudulent dollars(long)
Posted by: MS Sunshine (jbuchan3@midsouth.rr.com)
Posted on: Friday, 13 July 2001, at 6:02 p.m.
I seem to be having a problem with the settings on my ACME Fruadulent Dollars Detection software. It seems that this is alot more complex than I first thought. When is a fraudulent dollar first born? Is it when it is first conceived?(credit card purchase) or when it breaths it first breath("Hey Russ, You know that guy, who you couldn't pay? He's unbuyed in").
What if someone wins money in the freerolls, plays $4-8 holdem with Neal for awhile and turns his bankroll into about a dime. He comes up to the Bigs and gets his head handed to him. El Busto gets the plastic out and buys in. He plays $2-4 for awhile and goes broke. He thinks about that buyin and has his bank charge it back on his credit card when hears no one is getting paid. Now is the money he lost in the $20-40 tainted from the later fraudulent dollars?
Now, he is playing three handed $20-40 with MS Sunshine and Backlash(before the 33 days of hell). Fraudulent Dollar Man is beating the hell out of Backlash. He now has twice as much fraudulent dollars as before. Can he now lose more fraudulent dollars than he bought in for to MS Sunshine? Who in turn loses it back to Bachlash. Now, MS Sunshine breaks even for the night. Does Backlash have no fraudulent dollars? In fact might he have a credit of fraudulent dollars? Now, poor, poor MS Sunshine broke even, but has more fraudulent dollars than Fraudulent Dollar Man bought into the game with?
What if MS Sunshine only has $1,000 fraudulent dollars in his account? Should he get paid some part of the other $55,000 with everyone else. What if there is no money when the ACME fraud software is done. Is there any chance he will get paid in some other later round of checks?
Wouldn't it be easier to do a sort of everyone who have cashouts pending? Then open up our wallet and see how much money we have to pay players. Better hold out some of your players money for freerolls, servers and trips overseas to look for investors.
Now, here's the tricky part, start at the bottom and add up all the cashouts till you run out of money, then draw a line. Everyone about the line is accused of having some fraudulent dolllars in their account, except Daytrader who some how missed all those fraudulent dollars in the system.
I'm sorry, but I have to stop now. My wife says it's time to take my medication. Usually I get sleepy after I take it. So, have a nice day.
MS Sunshine
MS SUNSHINE -you are full of XXXXX
Posted by: neal ross (daytrader28@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 15 July 2001, at 11:08 p.m.
In the latest post by Ms Sunshine he/she or maybe ET claims to have won $30,000 since March, there has not been enough action at the site since then even if Ms Sunshine won each and every hand they played which i can assure you they did not, i would go so far as to say at best they have braoken even or lost a small amount since March. This latest post gives rise to me, at least, that indeed Sunshine has been engaged in some sort of fraudulent activity on the site and I call on Russ Boyd to look very carefully at the scripts imeediately.
PokerSpot
Posted by: Poker Chef (bss317@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 31 July 2001, at 7:32 p.m.
I know that most of you, as I am, are numb to any topics relating to Poker Spot. However, I recieved an email from them today in response to my request for a cashout. You can read it below. Funny thing is the date of the original email that i sent to them that they have just responded was May 22. FU Boyd!!!
I have really got to let this go. ********************************** Ticket Status: resolved Hello, Unfortunately, cashouts are currently on hold. However, an investment deal is currently in its final stages, and we expect to begin processing cashouts again in the very near future. Additionally, our lawsuit against our former credit card processor (for release of the funds still owed to us) is making steady progress. Thank you for your patience. Sincerely, Pokerspot.com Customer Support
Pokerspot Support Team support@pokerspot.com http://www.pokerspot.com/
John,
We're still compiling the data regarding money owed. We've sorted through
all of our bank statements and cashed checks through 5/1/01 and I do not
have any record of you cashing a PSI check. That would indicate that all
cashouts are still pending. Currently, it seems that there is a total of
$56,838 outstanding.
There is still quite a bit of information we must review before we begin the
settlement process, including credit card chargebacks, information post
5/1/01, cashouts which were returned to your account, and fraudulent charges
and wins.
I'd like to point out that I rarely respond to players these days. This is
due to a number of factors. We have quite a few players who are owed
considerable sums of money. We do not have any support personnel left. All
of our efforts are aimed at fixing this situation. Unfortunately, that
leaves us with little time to reassure players. At this point, actions
speak louder than words and the only thing which will reassure anyone is a
check in hand.
This project left our company insolvent. If it weren't for the fact that we
own a valuable asset in our software, everyone involved in the project,
including investors, employees, and players, would be out a great deal of
time and money. As it stands now, we should be able to mitigate the damage
caused to us.
That's all I have to say right now. You'll hear more from us in the coming
weeks and months as we go through the settlement process.
Sincerely,
Russ Boyd
Russ,
Until now, I have stayed silent amidst all of the RGP controversy you
create. But that was until you attacked Paul Westley, who, if you
spend the rest of your life trying to develop integrity and character,
will still be twice the man you will ever be. Furthermore, after
reading your posts, which change every day, I have become sickened to
the point that I feel compelled to share my little part in your saga.
My involvement with Russ Boyd and Pokerspot:
In Spring of 2001, I was working with a partner in Boston and some
venture capitalists from Kansas City to develop an internet poker
site. Several poker celebrities that post on this site had been
contracted to work with the site and we were in the final stages of
acquiring software.
Seeing the difficulty that Pokerspot was experiencing, we approached
Russ with an offer to either buy his company outright, or to license
his software. Russ agreed that the idea sounded good and we arranged
to meet in Boston for a sitdown to discuss the possible arrangements.
Upon meeting Russ, I was extraordinarily impressed with how highly
Russ thought of himself. However, he was very smooth, if a little
oily, and we spoke in depth about his predicament and the
opportunities still available.
We were very interested in the intellectual and non-tangible property
that Pokerspot owned: mailing lists, software, patents, etc. We came
up with an offer that we presented to Russ in the late Spring. The
offer included paying off all of the debts of Pokerspot (which Russ
stated was $300,000 at that time) $200,000 for Russ, and 10% in the
new company, which we had decided to call PokerScene. Russ agreed to
the stipulations, and we sent him a draft. Russ signed a copy of the
draft and returned it to me by FedEx.
At this point, we contacted our venture capitalist and prepared to
arrange for finalizing the financial transactions. The next day, Russ
and I were talking on the phone I made mention of the non-compete
clause and he laughed at me. I asked what was funny and he replied
that I didn't think he was actually going to get out of this industry,
did I? I directed him to the draft that he had signed which included
that we received all intellectual rights, mailing lists, patents, etc.
and that he would not be eligible to work in the industry for 3 years
(might have been 2). He got the contract, looked at it, agreed that
was what it meant, agreed that he had signed it, and then said there
was no way he was going to honor it, and that if we wanted all of
those things, we would have to pay him over $1,000,000 (I think he
said he had an offer from a company for 1.2 Mil, but at this point, I
was rolling on the ground laughing my ass off.) I asked him if he was
serious. He stated that he was and that he thought that even at those
terms, we would be getting an incredibly great deal. It was at this
point that I realized that Russ was amoral, unethical, megalomaniacal,
and probably insane. I informed him that he was out of his mind and
was probably passing up the best deal he was going to find.
My backers, upon seeing the deal fall through, developed cold feet,
withdrew and the deal died. The based their decision in part on
feeling that if people like Russ were indicative of the people in the
industry, they wanted no part of it. So, in a way, Russ actually
helped to kill two internet poker companies. But he did have a signed
contract that would have taken care of his debts to Pokerspots
customers and left him smelling a lot sweeter than the drunkard
offering his futures for $5K that he claims to be.
Russ,
I have seen you three times since then and, like Paul, have been nice
to you. This was not because I like you, it was because I felt sorry
for you and believed that you still deserved some basic human dignity.
I have changed my mind. I believe that you are completely devoid of
any character whatsoever, and that until you start to truly accept
that you are responsible for your actions that you will never be
anything more than a spoiled child prodigy gone bad. Nobody cares how
smart you are or what a brilliant poker player you feel you are. What
people do care about Russ is that you are slimy, and the more you
speak, the more obvious that becomes. When you attack people like
Paul, who went out of his way to not say bad things about you, you are
out of your league. In the future, be abundantly clear, I do not want
to hang out, have a drink, or talk about future business.
Burton Ritchie
Now my question for Russ, Dutch and his evil minions is:
Why did you not sell the PokerSpot software instead of taking it to your next venture?
It was the major asset of PokerSpot and should have been sold at the best possible price to pay creditors(us here) some of what is owed.
MS Sunshine