Burn card question?

[Porcupine]

Our home game is improving, and recently we are having good luck adding new players, but it is still very low stakes, friendly, and irregularly scheduled.

Sometimes a newbie will accidently put the "burn card" on the board. How does everyone else handle this?

The two views in our game are:
1) It doesn't matter as this card is the burn card, just burn it (even though it was exposed and dealt) and use the next/proper card.

2) That card was put in play, use it and move on.

Option 2 carries some extra weight because we have done it this way in this past, partly from the days when not everyone would burn cards (they've all come around now).

Example from this week-end: I held 67 and flop came 667 /images/graemlins/grin.gif Turn was a Q. Me and another player went about 6 bets. Without burning a card, a blank was dealt to the river. He quickly realized he didn't burn a card and dealt the next card, a Q, Making the board 667QQ. I objected and noted that earlier in the night we had let "burn card" play in this situation. Table discussed it and agreed with me, based on the precedent set earlier, the blank should play. Turns out he held KK, so the river card didn't matter, but it could have been ugly.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
The two views in our game are:
1) It doesn't matter as this card is the burn card, just burn it (even though it was exposed and dealt) and use the next/proper card.

2) That card was put in play, use it and move on.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is more important to be consistent, and show the dealer the deal style with the burn card immediately after the hand is dealt.

Looks like you have done #2 once. You should be sure to always do that now.

Good luck with your home game. Nice for you that it is growing.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

This happens all the time in my home game. The game has been running six months, and we get a fair number of newbies and guys who play once every few months. The written rule is play the board as it is, even if the burn card wasn't burned. Bottom line, the cards are random and in the long run, it really doesn't matter. For the sake of consistency, we try to educate those who err so it doesn't happen again. Having the rule be that the exposed card gets burned seems like it would upset the game more than just using the card that was turned up.

[LetsRock]

It's not clear if you have a rule that burn cards are part of your game's routine. You should have a never or always rule and stick to it. If you don't have cheaters who can tell what the top card is, there's no need to do it.

If you are going to do burn cards, it should be always. If a burn card is exposed ( ie flop is dealt without burning), the burn card should be determined (the first card off) and removed from the flop with another card added to the flop. Everyone should be informed which card was exposed, and then it gets burned. Same with the burn card put into play on the turn or river. If play commences (bets made) based on the exposed card (betting started before the mistake was noticed) it has to remain in play. It would be unfair at that point to change the board.

If you get in the habit of always or never the mistakes will be fewer. If you use the burn card and you continue to have mistakes, you should impose some kind of penalty on the dealer (like:has to fold and add 2BB to the pot), your dealers will get better, I promise.

In friendly games, burning is usually a waste of time, but it should be never or always, not just when the dealer feels like it.

[anduril]

i would just be slightly worried that a "newbie" knows that making a mistake means that card is in play and would then take a quick peak at the next card and "accidentally" turn it up instead of burning it. Just make sure the dealer always has the deck on the table unless he is already out of the hand.

[PokerSlut]

Personally, I prefer following casino rules and treat it as an exposed card. Which in this case means everyone involved in the hand gets to see the card, then the next card is used as the turn card since it was the burn card anyway. This avoids the possible scenario that some unscrupulous dealer might sneak a peak at the top card then deliberately misdeal the burn card to create a favorable outcome.

However, I also agree that consistency is the most important thing, above and beyond specific rulings.


If you are really interested in creating a set of guidelines that will guarantee consistent, fair play, I highly recommend printing out a copy of Robert's Rules of Poker (http://www.diamondcs.net/~thecoach/RobsPkrRules4.htm) and using that.

[Porcupine]

Thanks for your response.

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I think it is more important to be consistent, and show the dealer the deal style with the burn card immediately after the hand is dealt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Consistency led to the current policy of letting the "burn card" play, maybe I'll bring it up next poker night and "formalize" the rule, which ever way everyone is more comfortable with.

[Porcupine]

Thanks for your response.

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The game has been running six months, and we get a fair number of newbies and guys who play once every few months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds alot like our game.

[ QUOTE ]
For the sake of consistency, we try to educate those who err so it doesn't happen again. Having the rule be that the exposed card gets burned seems like it would upset the game more than just using the card that was turned up.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what we try to do and at least in part how we started letting the exposed card play.

[Porcupine]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not clear if you have a rule that burn cards are part of your game's routine. You should have a never or always rule and stick to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It didn't used to be, but between me liking some consistency and "the way 'they' do it on WPT/ESPN" burn cards have become part of the routine.

[ QUOTE ]
If you get in the habit of always or never the mistakes will be fewer. If you use the burn card and you continue to have mistakes, you should impose some kind of penalty on the dealer (like:has to fold and add 2BB to the pot), your dealers will get better, I promise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm OK with it, but others will probably see it as too harsh for "just a burn card". Maybe I try something like "throw in an extra bet" that is more likely to be approved, but will at least get dealers paying closer attention.

[Porcupine]

This is a good point that had crossed my mind. At this point, I don't think cheating is an issue in our game, but I rather not have easy opportunites for cheating either.

[Porcupine]

Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it to look at closer later.

As mentioned in my previous replies, consistency led to the current loose policy of letting the exposed card stay, but possible 'peeking' makes me think that treating it as an exposed card may be better.

I'm still somewhat torn, I really wanted to hear others thoughts before I tried to make a more concrete rule in our game.

[LetsRock]

Don't bother with a penalty if it's not somewhat severe.