Why Don't Women Play Poker?

[theBruiser500]

It really amazes me how few women play poker. I play a little chess, and at chess touranments it surprised me how few women played chess, but poker is even worse. I haven't been to Foxwoods, but I did go to Turning Stone and I remember playing with one or two females the whole night. It seems like there are even FEWER online. There are some people on pokerstars that have pictures of girls granted, but half the time they are pictures of models (so this person is obviously not a girl) and the other half the time they've choosen random pictures of girls just to trick other people. Oh, also, in all the live games I've played with my friends, for instance the one at Umass Amherst where about 50 different people ahve played they were all guys!!!!

What's going on here? Where are all the girls?

danny

[daiwiza]

I think it's just a general phenomenon. Woman simply do not have so much interest in games as such. When I was younger I played a lot of Video and Computer Games and guess: There were not many womans interested in that, too. Poker and chess are somehow a fight. Women don't like fighting by far so much than men. Fighting is rather men's nature. Girls have a more preserving nature.

Your hobby-philosopher /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Webster]

Yea- but the ones that do are good!

[ChristinaB]

[ QUOTE ]
Women don't like fighting by far so much than men. Fighting is rather men's nature. Girls have a more preserving nature.



[/ QUOTE ]
You are right. Just look at Granny Mae and Lorinda. Passive, meek, mild-mannered. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nikita]

Actually, they do and the ones that do play poker are damn good.

Actually there are bunch players women playing online - just most of them chose misleading account names like ZimaDog, lmao! or Mr.Shark, so it's hard to guess. Sometimes the tables are 'women only' which is pretty funny - they love to chat and chat and chat.
Some of them just love to socialize - flirting with guys and turning the chat to a XXX room..which we love for not only the obvious reasons

If you play at Party, the chicks are there /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Take advantage of the SockerMoms and run away from the silent destroyers

[regisd]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't been to Foxwoods, but I did go to Turning Stone and I remember playing with one or two females the whole night.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've played at foxwoods occasionally (usually 4/8, and i just tried my hand at 5/10-kill), and while i'm sometimes the only woman at my table, there's usually just one other woman playing at my table. i don't think i've ever played at a table at foxwoods with more than two other women, though. so, yeah, same deal.

[Beach-Whale]

I don't believe in the "genetic" or "nature" theories - I believe that it's in the culture, and our upbringing. How many guys, e.g., are into sewing and knitting? Well, not many, I suspect. Why? I just think that they are not among the things that are very accepted for guys to choose from. Same with poker for girls - it's not on their "accepted activities" list, so it takes more interest and a more active choice for them to get into it.

Of course, some people have more of this girl/guy cultural attitude in them than others. But at the end of the day, I believe that it's mostly a "PR" problem. Let's stop presenting poker as such a "manly" game.

[daryn]

do you go to MIT?

[AwesomeAli]

There are deffinitely more women players online than play live poker. Funny thing is, you see most of them playing for fun money.

I started on fun money tables, as most people do, and now that I've moved to real money tables, only one woman that I met at the fun money tables now also plays for real $$. The rest of the women prefer to stay and play for fun.

My research into this found that they are the wives/girlfriends of men who play for real money online. An these women just wanna play to see what all the fuss is about. So the husband/boyfriend says "sure you can play, but only for fun money /images/graemlins/mad.gif". This I know for sure as I have asked these women and even been one of them myself /images/graemlins/blush.gif. They just like to play with their play chips and have a chat and a giggle with the other people at the table. Most of them are terrible gossips (but aren't all poker players /images/graemlins/grin.gif) and will stop at nothing to find out the latest and then pass it on.

I think that live poker is a completely different matter. At my local casino this past Saturday there were only 25 runners in the competition, five of those were women. So not a bad %age really. But again, whenever I play there, I am usually on a table full of men /images/graemlins/wink.gif

At my home game I have had a surprising amount of women pass through the doors. I have three regulars which are women, the rest are men. A normal home game consists of 3 women and 13 men.

I really don't see what the big fuss is about women and poker. As far as I am concerned, once you sit down at a poker table, you just become yet another poker player. Men aren't going to fold or check to you because you are female. If anything, they think you are easy meat and that they can take your $$.

Personally, I love being a female in the poker world.

Ali

[astroglide]

more conservative, less competitive

[moondogg]

Regarding the nature/nurture comparision, I agree that there is a significant amount of nurture involved, caused by society's influnce on expected gender roles. However, I feel that to completely deny the existance of a gender's natural tendencies is political correctness gone haywire.
As one of the simpliest examples, look at men and women when they are around some else's newborn baby. Men's general reaction is "hey, cool, good for you" while they think "please don't let it crap or puke on me". The far more caring reaction you get from women is instinctive, it is not learned, and it can not be taught.
I agree that society has a large influence on what we do and how we act as a member of a specific gender, but it is also a balance of what we are taught to do and what we have the instinctive urge to do.

Just my two cents,
Mooney

[regisd]

[ QUOTE ]
do you go to MIT?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope. i used to hang out there quite a bit back in the 80's to get time on computers and i knew a bunch of folks there. now i only know a few folks there.

[Steven Punk]

It's the atmosphere.

I'll give 2 examples.

1) Strip Clubs.
When men go into a strip club they are silent, even stoic. There is a bravado posture amongst all at least untill too much alcaholhas been consumed. This versus when women come to see me at the strip club. They yell and cheer and giggle. That's the way they enjoy themselves.

2)Co-ed softball versus Men only softball. Again co-ed the women are laughing and don't even care to keep score. Men at co-ed fall in line, watch their language because they are watching the women rather than competing. If the women leave the gloves come off, profanity reigns king, and the score is not only kept but hotly debated.

To sum up; Since men started this game they play it a competitive as possible. Silent, posturing and argumentative. This atmosphere doesn't attract most women but men love it.

If you want women to come men must be more sociable and enjoyable for women.

[umdpoker]

have you ever seen a girl fight? eye gouging, hair pulling, clawing at anything they can get their hands on is the norm. sure, there are fewer agressive women, but the ones who are aggressive are evil. don't [censored] with them.

[lefty rosen]

Women in general don't have the brain for it(it's a stereotype). It's a left side right side thing when it comes to the brain. Chess is the same thing........

[TylerD]

Bollocks

[Steven Punk]

[ QUOTE ]
Women in general don't have the brain for it(it's a stereotype). It's a left side right side thing when it comes to the brain. Chess is the same thing........

[/ QUOTE ]

This is garbage. Ladies are a big demographic that could be playing poker. This attitude rather than encouragement is part of the problem.

Learn some manners.

[Sarge85]

My wife plays, and plays well.

She has the nickname "The Piranha" - you guess how well she does.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[lefty rosen]

How long have you been playing cards, go to your average cardroom the worst calling stations are women, they play like poker is bingo. So tell me why there has never been a female contender for the world chess championship(an infintely harder game than poker even NL)?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]


What's going on here? Where are all the girls?

danny

[/ QUOTE ]

Working the guys for +EV that you'll never see in any poker game in your life. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

eastbay

[theBruiser500]

[ QUOTE ]
How long have you been playing cards, go to your average cardroom the worst calling stations are women, they play like poker is bingo. So tell me why there has never been a female contender for the world chess championship(an infintely harder game than poker even NL)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say that chess is infintely harder than NL hold'em, in fact, I wouldn't even say it's harder. They're both games which require huge amounts of skill. That being said, I agree with the gist of your post.

danny

[ThinkQuick]

If you want to know what I learned studying for my sociology exam...
This is definitely a sociological phenomenon.
Anyone who has said that women are less competetive or 'have other interests' is acknowledging the fact that Gender (learned masculinity or femininity) sorts people, on the basis of sex, into different life experiences.
It isn't sex alone that keeps women from the pokerroom - although I have not seen studies to support this, I suspect that the anatomical differences between men and women don't have a bearing on the ability to play.
But the poker room is definitely a male-dominated space, and poker is what's known as 'sex-typed', meaning that is it is definitely attributed to one sex, in this case men.
It's hard for women to defeat stereotypes, peer pressure, and the negative image that comes with attempting to compete in a male-dominated activity. Proffesional women athletes constantly confront slurs and jeers as they are considered to be lesbian, manly, and certainly unfeminine.

The institution of gender discrimination indicates that men don't want women in mens activities. Male dominated work is associated with a higher prestige that decreases as women become associated with it. (Ie. previous prestige of male banktellers compared with the decreased pretige now that more women are banktellers.)

It's no surprise that women don't yet play the game that men started, men play, and is a 'manly' sport; but one can only assume that they will, following the examples of hockey, curling (I'm Canadian) and other sports and professions.

It's very very interesting, and also understandable, that the women that play are 'good' poker players.
There is no glass ceiling in poker, ie. men can't hold women back because poker players don't really need other men to advance in skill, and additionally, some male entoring would be available to these women because I don't believe the attitude towards women in the poker world is truly very negative.
In fact, women advancing quickly in poker may be related to a parallel phenomenon observed in men working in female-dominated occupations: in response to the questioning and jeering of their peers and the social stereotypes that surround the occcupation, the men work extra hard, and this, combined with the stereotype that men can working well, allows them to rise quickly to the top.
This 'Glass Escalator' effect, combined with the fact that almost every man plays poorly against a woman based on his background assumptions about her, helps explain why the few women players do alot better then many of their male counterparts.

Well I feel like I rambled.......
ahh it's ok.
Jonathan

[pretender2k]

I think there is some truth to that. I deal blackjack and I can see that difference in men and women players alot of the time. I don't think it is the total reason but a significant part of the equation.

[Fraubump]

If you wanna meet chicks, try activities that have a good chick/dick ratio, like Scrabble clubs, quilting, and charity work. Staying at home all day in front of your computer can wait until you're married and bored with it (ahem). B&M cardroom staff are doubtless very tired of being hit on by one-dimensional slobs, though being cute and obviously having a lot of dough may help.

[pretender2k]

How big a difference do you all think it would make if a woman won the WSOP this year? Mainly the this year part is because of the amount of veiwers and media attention it will see this year.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]

If you wanna meet chicks, try activities that have a good chick/dick ratio, like Scrabble clubs, quilting, and charity work.

[/ QUOTE ]

These would be great places to meet chicks. If the chicks I wanted to meet were my grandmother.

[Lori]

The third post in the below thread, by Warren Whitmore makes an interesting read.

Women and IQ (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=psych&Number=368791&Forum= psych&Words=standard%20deviation%20iq&Match=And&Se archpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=368688&Search=t rue#Post368791)

Lori

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
The third post in the below thread, by Warren Whitmore makes an interesting read.

Women and IQ (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=psych&Number=368791&Forum= psych&Words=standard%20deviation%20iq&Match=And&Se archpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=368688&Search=t rue#Post368791)

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

That post summarizes something I've read about regarding the IQ of men and women. The average IQ across the board of men and women are the same. However there seem to be more men at the extreme ends of things. Extremely smart, and extremely dumb. That's why you'll see 99 men out of 100 people on the smartest person list. That's also why you see 99 men out of 100 on any given episode of "America's Dumbest Criminals." As to what this means for the average player like myself, Annie Duke and Jennifer Harman can still kick my ass at poker.

[PuppetMaster]

[ QUOTE ]
If you wanna meet chicks, try activities that have a good chick/dick ratio, like Scrabble clubs, quilting, and charity work. Staying at home all day in front of your computer can wait until you're married and bored with it (ahem). B&M cardroom staff are doubtless very tired of being hit on by one-dimensional slobs, though being cute and obviously having a lot of dough may help.

[/ QUOTE ]

[lefty rosen]

The Jennifer Harmon I'm scared look only works once, then you catch on that the she knows how to play........