Commerce 20/40 : KQs in the CO

[GuyOnTilt]

I've played the Commerce 20 game the last two nights and man are they good. They are soft seats all over the place at these tables. Great place to play cards.

Anyways, I showed up at 11:00pm last night and bought in my two racks. The first hand I posted in the BB and was dealt AA, raised 4 limpers, and went on to win the hand unimproved. That pretty much set the tone for my session. It's getting to be on 2:00am and I haven't played a single interesting hand. I've been dealt some hot cards and have a 4-rack pyramid in front of me plus a couple stacks. My table image is that of a very tight player who folds too much (I know this 'cause it's been said out loud by others more than once).

Like I said, nothing interesting has happen to me all night, until I'm dealt K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the CO. The UTG player is extremely loose-aggressive preflop, but plays reasonably postflop. He's rather tricky on all streets. He raises and it's folded around to me. The Button is a tight/aggressive and the blinds are both kind of loose/passive. I 3-bet and all fold to UTG who calls.

Flop comes: T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

He checks, I bet, he calls.

Turn comes: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif[T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]

He checks, I check.

River comes: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif[Q /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]

He checks, I bet, he calls.

Tell me how I did. I can take it.

GoT

[chesspain]

GoT,

I assume you checked behind on the turn because you believed that either he would:

1) Fold a hand with which he was way behind: 77/88
2) Checkraise you with a better hand: 99/TT/QQ/AQ/KK/AA

If this was your thinking, this might make sense with respect to "I win nothing more when I am ahead but will spend an extra BB when behind to see if I can redraw to my flush." However, if he has either JJ or AK, he would almost certainly call this turn bet, given the str8 possibilities forming, even though you are comfortably ahead. Furthermore, if he has AK, he will likely checkfold the river unimproved, meaning that you lose out on a bet to this not unlikely hand.


Am I close?

P.S. In the first fifteen minutes after posting this response, I needed to edit my response a couple of times to add on all of the hands you are behind to which you might face a checkraise. Maybe checking the turn through wasn't so bad after all.

[Pipedream]

Do you not like $40? Sometimes when I play I like to pass up $40 too....oh wait.

Pipedream

[RydenStoompala]

Nevermind the hand for a sec...

[ QUOTE ]
My table image is that of a very tight player who folds too much (I know this 'cause it's been said out loud by others more than once).

[/ QUOTE ]

How good is that!!!???? Gives you some real room against the experts. You're up two + racks in 3 hours and the WPT fans don't like you. Is that a good description?

Top pair and King high flush draw on the turn against a loose-agressive player on a table where they think you fold the nuts "just in case." I would bet the turn, and if raised, I would 3 bet him. Nice river.

[AJo Go All In]

i would bet the turn, give him a chance to be "tricky" and check-raise you with worse hand

[sthief09]

You people are saying he doesn't like $40, but the fact of the matter is that he knows he is ahead (I don't think his opponent can afford to check-call then check-raise AA or KK given the vulnerability of those hands in on this flop), and there are likely only 3 cards (3 non-diamond aces) that can beat him (also consider JJ is drawing dead). So I think the check on the turn was to get the guy to call the river, since it's unlikely he'd get 2 bets from the guy. Better 0 bets on the turn and 1 on the river than the guy folding the turn. Is this right?

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
also consider JJ is drawing dead

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ is drawing very live, it has an OESD, discounting the /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs, so 6 outs.

[UMTerp]

I'm throwing in as many bets as I can on every street in this hand. Nothing tricky. What was your thinking when you checked the turn? There was no indication you were behind, and even if you were, you had plenty of outs.

[chesspain]

Whereas I am not sure whether checking the turn was the proper play or not, nearly every response so far has been some variation of "Throw more money in, you likely have the best hand," even though his opponent was an UTG openraiser (albeit extremely loose-aggressive PF) whom GoT described as a tricky, reasonable post-flop player who is now heads-ups against a PF three-bettor, meaning that his opponent could easily have been afraid to bet his possibly better hand for value on the flop or he is attempting to trap GoT with what he believes is a better hand.

Indeed, whereas I again state that I don't know if GoT's play was correct, at least I am trying to think about what his opponent might have, and how he may be planning to play, rather than just looking at my own cards and thinking "Oooh, I have TP and a great draw!"

[beerbandit]

I might have thrown this one away or just called the original raise. With this drawing hand you want more than yourself and this tricky/aggresive play in the hand. You also still have the tight aggresive player acting behind you. Are you going to call a capped flopped bet for three way action. Even if you hit your king or queen it still may not be the best hand. Also you do have a straight and flush draw but the flush isn't even the nut.

I prob. would have checked the flop and tried for a turn raise if you make your hand and call the reraise if. Bet the river and call a raise.

What he have?

[mikelow]

I still think you missed a turn bet. You can handle a check-raise (might three-bet it) with your draw.

[Coilean]

I would bet the turn and hope to get check raised by this "rather tricky on all streets" opponent, which I would be thrilled to call down (and possibly raise on the river). Checking the turn will likely win you a river call from an ace high or maybe a river bluff from a bust, but it can also cost you multiple bets if he was willing to call down or check raise with a worse hand on the turn. Given a choice between trying for multiple bets or one bet, I usually go for the whole enchilada unless it seems pretty far from reach and the taquito is already near to hand.

[Joe Tall]

Guy,

WTF? Bet the turn? You want him to check-raise; you've got a monster draw and mostlikely the best hand. You could make an arguement for 3-betting and I don't mind taking it down right there.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[BottlesOf]

Anyways, I showed up at 11:00pm last night and bought in my two racks...It's getting to be on 2:00am and I...have a 4-rack pyramid in front of me plus a couple stacks. My table image is that of a very tight player who folds too much (I know this 'cause it's been said out loud by others more than once).

Yeah, just imagine how much more money you could've won if you played more hands /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can understand why you considered checking the turn, given the description of your opponent. But, you are ahead of AK, AJ, JJ. You are behind AQ, TT, 99. You are of course behing QQ-AA, but does he have a penchant for slowplaying? How likely do you think these are?

I suppose you should break down the percentages and figure it out, (in fact I'd love it if you did this, so I could see your thought process/analysis) but either way, you have up to 17 outs! A c/r wouldn't be terrible. I bet the turn.

[DcifrThs]

Good post.

You asked for folks to let you have it and they by and large did. i count one/maybe2 agreeing with your checking the turn. but he might c-r aj, jj, kjs which you would love and could reraise. i think your table image that you fold too much should make you want to bet the turn and even 3 bet as pointed out.

all in all you may have cost yourself some bets here but took away the utg's ability to get tricky on you...honestly though i think that hand welcomed his trickery.

-Barron