Dutch Boyd Question. . .

[tdomeski]

I've heard from a bunch of people, including Chris Moneymaker, that Dutch Boyd got banned from Pokerstars. . . .some people have said it was due to collusion, others say it was spamming.. . . .Does anyone know the real story, thanks.

[thirddan]

you can read a lot about dutch boyd on this forum, just use the search function to see all the great things 2+2ers have to say about him /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Frozen]

Wow thirddan...that was an irrelevant answer worthy of the Party Poker support staff. I hope it's not contagious!

[MS Sunshine]

He's a scum-sucking bottom dweller that owes my wife and I $56,838 after taking the assets of PokerSpot for his new venture www.rakefree.com (http://www.rakefree.com) instead of selling them and paying us, and 1000 other players, some of the money owed by him. He also finished 12th in last year's WSOP for $80,000, but somehow never found a need to pay anyone. It is unlikely he was cheating just spamming for his new venture.

MS Sunshine

[KC50]

I confirm everything MS Sunshine says as the truth. I too was a victim of his PokerSpot ripp off (only a few K not near to the degree of MS Sunshine). In fact that's where I met MS Sunshine and can say if he or his wife make any type of derogatory statement towards another you can be assured it's the truth.

Kind Regards,

KC

[Paul2432]

If you hate the guy so much why post a hyperlink to his new venture? I am sure he is thankful for the free publicity.

Paul

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
If you hate the guy so much why post a hyperlink to his new venture? I am sure he is thankful for the free publicity.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's also the likelihood of associating the name Dutch Boyd and rakefree with unfavorable comments.

Search at Google right ow for Dutch Boyd rakefree and the fourth link includes the comment "Dutch Boyd doesn't have
a very good reputation when it comes to online poker."

The more people in Public Forums mention both with poor things to say, the more likely it is that Google shows those comments.

That's the kind of publicity no one is thankful for.

[andrewbross]

No words can describe this lowlife. He screwed me out of $4000+ and left over 700 players without their money. Ms. Sunshine was the largest victim. Its amazing that he is not in jail or even alive. Additionally, on the WSOP televison program aired by ESPN, he claims to have graduated college at 13, according to the extensive backround info I have on him, he did not graduate college at any age. Dutch Boyd is a PATHOLOGICAL liar.

[Anadrol 50]

If I was owed that much cash I would have 'greeted' him at the WSOP.

C'mon, what happened to old fashioned violence ?

[Silybum]

What the idiots slamming Dutch boyd don't realize is that Dutch is
trying to get these whiners their money back, even though he is under
absolutely no moral or legal obligation to do so.

His site, looks like it will truly revolutionize
online poker. I personally CAN'T WAIT until this site opens. I used to
play on pokerspot, and yes, I lost some money, but I am willing to give
this guy a break and a chance to prove his worth.

He is not a crook. He was a kid when he started pokerspot. He has
learned a lot since then, and now understands what it takes to make an
online poker site work. Rakefree appears to be a win/win/win
situation. The players who play there win by not having to pay a huge
rake (do you have any idea what we pay each month in rakes alone? It is
ridiculous!). The former players at Pokerspot win because, if it is
successful, Dutch will do everything in his power to pay them back. And
Dutch Boyd wins because the success of this site will help clear his
name.

I say give him, and the site a chance. Who cares you don't like him?
He is basically offering you a huge discount to play the game you love.
He has learned from his past, and it is time for us to gather around a
fellow poker player and support a venture that will profit us as much as
it will him, rather than wasting our efforts trying to discredit him.

[TheGrifter]

[KC50]

[ QUOTE ]
What the idiots slamming Dutch boyd don't realize is that Dutch is
trying to get these whiners their money back, even though he is under
absolutely no moral or legal obligation to do so.


***1st of all what gives you the license to call anyone an idiot? You say he is trying to get these whiners their $ back but has no moral or legal obligation to do so? Legal, no, I agree. But only because internet gambling it's not totally legal in the 1st place. But theoredically (sp sorry) this statement is like saying that B&M cardrooms dont' have any legal obligations either. That is obsurd! You say no moral obligation? Well if it's not a legal one it has to be moral. Moral means doing the right thing! And if he has all this intention, then why hasn't he mentioned it?

His site, looks like it will truly revolutionize
online poker. I personally CAN'T WAIT until this site opens. I used to play on pokerspot, and yes, I lost some money, but I am willing to give this guy a break and a chance to prove his worth.

***This guy promised and promised and promised to make it good 4 years ago when PS went belly up. He promised to make installments. I lost a few $K and got 1 installment for a mere $35!!! How can you blame anyone that was victim to his ways and unworthy promises to feel the way we do?

He is not a crook. He was a kid when he started Pokerspot. He has learned a lot since then, and now understands what it takes to make an online poker site work. Rakefree appears to be a win/win/win situation. The players who play there win by not having to pay a huge
rake (do you have any idea what we pay each month in rakes alone? It is ridiculous!). The former players at Pokerspot win because, if it is successful, Dutch will do everything in his power to pay them back. And Dutch Boyd wins because the success of this site will help clear his
name.

***You have given no evidence whatsoever of this to be true. How could anyone that fell victim to the losses that he inflicted on them be willing to "give the kid a break" as you are trying to say?


I say give him, and the site a chance. Who cares you don't like him? He is basically offering you a huge discount to play the game you love. He has learned from his past, and it is time for us to gather around a fellow poker player and support a venture that will profit us as much as
it will him, rather than wasting our efforts trying to discredit him.

***Words are all you have. We all know that it's not what we think or say that counts, it's what we do. And for Mr. Boyd, his actions speak far louder than the whisper of your thoughts.

KC

[DrSavage]

If rakefree.com ever opens I'm going to spend some of my personal time going through tables and spamming then with links to articles about Dutch's past. Giving Dutch a second chance is like reelecting GWB.

[Beach-Whale]

Well, Silybum, I'd say it's a big win situation for those of us that don't hold any grudge against Russ/Dutch, because if Rakefree gets off the ground, not only do we have the opportunity to play without rake, but we're free of some of the bigger sharks too! Fantastic! I hope that they all hate him forever.

[Beach-Whale]

Can you give me the links now, because I have still to read anything of substance that speak against Dutch? If there's something that I don't know, I want to find out.

[MS Sunshine]

"Dutch is trying to get these whiners their money back, even though he is under absolutely no moral or legal obligation to do so."

Yes he was. Like any failed business he should have sold the assets(mainly software in this spot) and paid his creditors some of what was owed. He said he would do this. He didn't. So on top of being a poor businessman he IS a liar and a thief.

This subject is an emotional sinkhole for me, your friend did damage that took my wife and I a few years to overcome. I will not be posting on this subject anymore.

MS Sunshine

[Terry]

Nothing of substance? Have you done a search right here on this forum? How many of us who got nothing from him except excuses, promises, and an ever-changing story do you have to hear from?

How’s this for substance: He continued to accept buy-ins long after he stopped making pay-outs.

He still intends to pay people what he owes from PokerSpot? Oh ... yeah ... right. When I get my money, I’ll let you know.

You’re talking here about a guy who put his hat on sideways on national television to get his logo seen – a logo advertising a blank web page – it wasn’t until several weeks later that the website contained a plea for investors. Yep, he’s definitely wised up and now has a solid business plan.

For now, count my vote as “scum-sucking bottom dweller” – nothing personal – it’s about the money.

[Beach-Whale]

No, I'm not going to do a search. If you can post telling me to do a search, you can post something of substance. I've got a strong feeling that a search would only give me more of what I have already read. Too hard to find the substance that might be out there.

As for the buy-ins vs. cashouts, I can only speculate that they probably though that everything was going to work itself out very soon, and that the cashouts were only going to be delayed, so it would make no sense to bring the whole business to a screeching halt. And I cannot understand why you call a company "he".

I know that people didn't get their money. I think I know that PokerSpot went bankrupt and couldn't pay what it owed, and that Boyd was only one of the people involved in the company. I also think that I know that this happened due to circumstances that were not in PokerSpot's hands, that PokerSpot was a victim too, and that it would have been stupid of PokerSpot to have deliberately sunk itself, as it would probably have been a very lucrative business by now if it had survived. It seems pretty stupid to believe that they screwed people deliberately.

This is what I believe until I find out otherwise. If you don't want to give me the information that you have that might show me that I believe wrong, that's fine and up to you, but don't blame me for believing what I believe if you don't.

[JTrout]

[ QUOTE ]
Giving Dutch a second chance is like reelecting GWB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Adding your political opinions into this thread is uncalled for.

[AJo Go All In]

[ QUOTE ]
If rakefree.com ever opens I'm going to spend some of my personal time going through tables and spamming then with links to articles about Dutch's past. Giving Dutch a second chance is like reelecting GWB.




[/ QUOTE ]
so let me see if i follow this analogy, does this mean that when bush gets reelected, you are going to become a terrorist?

considering bush is a favorite to be reelected this was a very stupid remark..

[Gramps]

Doesn't necessarily mean that it was with "good intentions."

If you run a poker site that goes under, and you don't give anyone a dime back and tell everyone to "f--- off," you may be able to keep the $$ you have (dependent on the laws of the county it's set up, etc.), but you'll never, ever, ever be able to operate another site (if people know it's you again, of course), because you've lost everyone's trust. You fool no one.

On the other hand, if you make some gestures to pay back some people a small portion of the money they're owed (as some posters in other threads have said happened), then for this "investment," you may be able to put a benevolent spin on the whole episode and get people to put money into another poker site you plan to open up in the future. That is, you may be able to buy the trust of enough people, to garner enough credibility, to where you will get people to, once again, pony up their $$ in a new poker site of yours.

Even if you're just a crook, you kept all of people's money the first time (minus the small payments of money owed), and you're looking to do it once again.

I don't know the whole story of this first site, I don't know if the above anlaysis applies in this instance - my only point is just because someone makes what appears to be an honest and "moral" gesture, doesn't mean that that is its purpose. Hmmm....I took your money once and didn't pay you back, but I PROMISE that this second time when I take your money I'll pay you as agreed....Be forewarned.

P.S. I think Boyd will do just fine even if no one plays on his site, since he's the "next big thing in poker." Don't cry for Dutch.

[TheGrifter]

[Beach-Whale]

[ QUOTE ]
No words can describe this lowlife. He screwed me out of $4000+ and left over 700 players without their money. Ms. Sunshine was the largest victim. Its amazing that he is not in jail or even alive. Additionally, on the WSOP televison program aired by ESPN, he claims to have graduated college at 13, according to the extensive backround info I have on him, he did not graduate college at any age. Dutch Boyd is a PATHOLOGICAL liar.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you say that http://www.law.missouri.edu/alumhonors.htm is fake then, do you?

Who's the liar?

[thirddan]

i don't htink my respnse was bad...im just saying that this has been asked before and he could probably find the answer in the archives...

[Dingo Puppet]

Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

If I was you I'd be supporting this rakefree.com venture 100% as it may be your last best hope to get paid back. Why try to sabotage your best hope for payback? That's you big mistake #2.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[apryllshowers]

That is a question worth asking, especially 4 years ago. Why keep so much $$ with the site? What was the highest limit at the time, 20-40?

[Elizabeth-Anne]

Some people feel BIG on rights.

So Dutch Boyd has a legal right to hide behind bankruptcy laws.

These people fail to realize his victims have reciprocal rights.

They have the "Right" to tell everybody what Dutch Boyd did, so they won't be scammed by him.

If people are sooo sensitive they can't bear to hear "whining", they have a right not to listen to it.

And bankruptcy and corporate shield laws don't give protection to fraud.

[crazy canuck]

I say give him, and the site a chance. Who cares you don't like him?

Why should we give him a chance? His rakefree might not be the only game in town...it's not like he copyrighted the idea. Furthermore, would you let a rehabilitated child molestor babysit your kids if he offered to do it for free? Sure, he might honest but why take a chance.

[subq]

the guy is a goober, watch the 2003 WSOP again

didn't he place and win some money there? why didn't he use some of that to pay off people he owed?

I would run, not walk, away from a site/company that this guy had anything to do with.

[_And1_]

If this ever takes of, the good thing wouldnt be rakefree.com, it just might be that the major sites start thinking about their own rakestructur. Most ppl here will avoid rakefree and Boyd, but that's not saying it wont come of the ground...

[Your Mom]

MS and his wife tried to cashout but Boyd and his site kept coming up with more bullshit reasons why he couldn't. Meanwhile, MS and his wife kept winning more money.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

If I was you I'd be supporting this rakefree.com venture 100% as it may be your last best hope to get paid back. Why try to sabotage your best hope for payback? That's you big mistake #2.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]

He tried that and was never paid. jeesh, you aren't bright.

Regardless of how rakefree goes, he'll never get his money back, dude just won 80K, he should have written checks from that to everyone he owed money to, is it not apparent to you that the guy is a fraud and a con-artist?

Follow your own advice.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
If this ever takes of, the good thing wouldnt be rakefree.com, it just might be that the major sites start thinking about their own rakestructur. Most ppl here will avoid rakefree and Boyd, but that's not saying it wont come of the ground...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is.

[mrwhippy]

silybum /images/graemlins/heart.gifdutch boyd 4 eva...when's the big day...shall I buy a hat....

[kdog]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I'm not going to do a search. If you can post telling me to do a search, you can post something of substance. I've got a strong feeling that a search would only give me more of what I have already read. Too hard to find the substance that might be out there.


[/ QUOTE ]

How many people have to tell you he stole from them before you decide there's "substance"? Oh, that's right, you'll NEVER see any "substance" because you're a shill for Boyd just like Hoppy and Ujekwhatever and however many other nicks you're using.

Well, I hope you're getting paid well to shill for him but let me give you just one piece of advice. Get the money up front.

[34TheTruth34]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, of course it's MS Sunshine's fault that he didn't get paid. It's his fault because he had 56K in the account. This makes perfect sense. Are you retarded? The best part of your useless post is when you tell him to "get a brain". Amazing. Cashing out as he goes? Yeah, great idea, I bet MS never thought of that...

[Myrtle]

For more in depth information regarding Dutch Boyd, check out the string by dux in the Internet Gambling forum #319817 - 08/20/03 04:21 AM titled Dutch Boyd posting at 2+2.

Sorry, I don’t know how to provide a link within this forum to take you directly there, or I would. I have copied my 2 cents worth here…………


A few observations about the PokerSpot/Russ "Dutch" Boyd situation, in no particular order of importance………

Intelligence is definitely not a measuring stick for integrity & honesty. Some of the biggest crooks I've ever met are also some of the most intelligent people I've ever met.

Incorporating one's business in the USA does not put corporate officers beyond the law in cases of fraud.

As an offshore corporation, Pokerspot was/is subject to the laws of the country within which it was doing business. I have no idea how those laws read, or what type of recourse anyone has. I'd be willing to bet that it's pretty fast & loose, and I wonder if the posters here who have lost large sums of money on Pokerspot have investigated their options. It would be interesting to hear what they have to say. I only had a small amount there, and it simply wasn't worth a 2nd thought.

I totally agree with the previous posters who outline what is a very clear distinction between investors and players. I really don't understand how anyone could possibly confuse those two radically different positions.

Having watched the site go down in real time and remembering the events as best I can, what happened to those players who lost funds is, IMHO, outrageous, unethical, and smacks of poor/panicked management grabbing at straws while trying to prop up a failing business. We are talking about some serious player bankrolls here, and I would be hard pressed to believe that Boyd & cronies didn't know exactly what they were doing when they started dipping into players accounts to fund their operation. Without seeing the actual cash disbursements, we will never really know where the money went, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of it didn't eventually end up in his pocket.

Without disclosing confidential information, I know for a fact that Boyd had more than one opportunity to sell the site software after it went down. For whatever reason, that did not happen.

I don't know, nor have ever met Boyd, but I will say that from simply watching him (and his cronies) on TV, I get chills up & down my spine. I've had my own sales rep business for over 25 years, and I have met literally hundreds of "Dutch Boyd's". They're bright, dynamic and can talk a dog off a meat wagon. They are also self-centered, sociopathic liars and seem to be able to justify anything that they do by how much it will benefit them.

All in all, it's a pretty sad story and will more than likely be repeated again. As all the sites are offshore & out of US jurisprudence, all we really have left to rely upon is the integrity of management to "do the right thing" when a site goes upside-down.

It does seem to put those of us who play online in a "caveat emptor" position, and I imagine some are very wary as to how much money they have residing at each site. I know that I am.

What I find most fascinating about "L'Affaire Pokerspot" now that Boyd is apparently back in the USA, is that the feds/IRS are not up his butt in a major way. Perhaps they are, and action is in motion……

If I were he, I'd sleep with an open eye on the emergency exit & one hand on the ejection seat……

Ps: MS……….Cut the cats some slack on this one.

[pokerboy11]

Twoplustwo.com posters dictate where I play my online games... not spammers or advertisements. Only the true opinion of skilled players will persuade me... Therefore I say I will NEVER play on a Dutch Boyd affiliated/owned/operated site. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Dingo Puppet]

To bad for him then. But whining here daily, years and years later isn't going to help him get his money back. Maybe if he kept his mouth shut it would serve his purpose better. Afterall, the guy says himself that the money for his software if sold would go to pay these people back. So why would any sane person try to sabotage that effort?

I doubt any sane person would. I doubt that any sane person would expose themselves to a 56 grand hit at one poker site. The first clues to a sight in trouble are pretty easy to spot. You guys need to get a clue if you can't spot them.

Love,
Hoppy

[Dingo Puppet]

The best thing about a rake free type of site is it would mean the end of affiliates as we know them. I don't know about the rest of you poker players, but I can't see how they deserve 20-35% of my rake for life. What for? For accidentally clicking on a poker site banner at one of their many websites?

Personally, I only sign up directly at a poker sites main page. If everyone did then they'd be in better position to lower rakes in the future. But they can't now when these affiliate do nothings rake in up to 35% of the total revenue. Not profits, REVENUE. Is it any wonder sites keep raising rakes?

[William Hung]

Is this guy for real? Does he really think people will believe he isnt Dutch the dick Boyd?

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
To bad for him then. But whining here daily, years and years later isn't going to help him get his money back. Maybe if he kept his mouth shut it would serve his purpose better. Afterall, the guy says himself that the money for his software if sold would go to pay these people back. So why would any sane person try to sabotage that effort?

I doubt any sane person would. I doubt that any sane person would expose themselves to a 56 grand hit at one poker site. The first clues to a sight in trouble are pretty easy to spot. You guys need to get a clue if you can't spot them.

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]

Dumbass, we're talking about the first-ever online poker site (maybe second, Planet may have been first). Nevertheless, there was nothing to compare it too, this was a new frontier.

The point is this, MS didn't put 56K of his own money in the site, he built his roll up to that there, then his cashouts were rejected. How many times does this have to be explained to you?

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
The best thing about a rake free type of site is it would mean the end of affiliates as we know them. I don't know about the rest of you poker players, but I can't see how they deserve 20-35% of my rake for life. What for? For accidentally clicking on a poker site banner at one of their many websites?

Personally, I only sign up directly at a poker sites main page. If everyone did then they'd be in better position to lower rakes in the future. But they can't now when these affiliate do nothings rake in up to 35% of the total revenue. Not profits, REVENUE. Is it any wonder sites keep raising rakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

No it won't mean the end of the affiliates as we know them, end of story.

Do you even play for real-money anywhere? B/C the way I see it, if you can't afford a $30 tourney every now and then, your bankroll must be shot.

[Elizabeth-Anne]

[ QUOTE ]
The best thing about a rake free type of site is it would mean the end of affiliates as we know them. I don't know about the rest of you poker players, but I can't see how they deserve 20-35% of my rake for life. What for? For accidentally clicking on a poker site banner at one of their many websites?

Personally, I only sign up directly at a poker sites main page. If everyone did then they'd be in better position to lower rakes in the future. But they can't now when these affiliate do nothings rake in up to 35% of the total revenue. Not profits, REVENUE. Is it any wonder sites keep raising rakes?

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point. We need to get rid of the affiliate leeches

[Elizabeth-Anne]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

If I was you I'd be supporting this rakefree.com venture 100% as it may be your last best hope to get paid back. Why try to sabotage your best hope for payback? That's you big mistake #2.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]


I heard that MS Sunshine didn't get paid by Pokerspot because he and his wife were playing at the same table and they were helping each other.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

If I was you I'd be supporting this rakefree.com venture 100% as it may be your last best hope to get paid back. Why try to sabotage your best hope for payback? That's you big mistake #2.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]


I heard that MS Sunshine didn't get paid by Pokerspot because he and his wife were playing at the same table and they were helping each other.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yea and that explains all the others who didn't get paid either, now doesn't it.

[Elizabeth-Anne]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

If I was you I'd be supporting this rakefree.com venture 100% as it may be your last best hope to get paid back. Why try to sabotage your best hope for payback? That's you big mistake #2.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]


I heard that MS Sunshine didn't get paid by Pokerspot because he and his wife were playing at the same table and they were helping each other.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yea and that explains all the others who didn't get paid either, now doesn't it.


[/ QUOTE ]


Some people got paid, but people engaged in collusion should not get paid no matter what.

[Elizabeth-Anne]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]


LMAO...nice head Sunshine!

[CrackerZack]

When you play with eugeneel, and your face is permanently attached to his lap, does that count as collusion? Is that the position that taught you how to talk out your ass?

[Myrtle]

Geezez, Mary & Joseph!!!!

Just exactly who the hell are you, Elizabeth Anne??

You HEARD that they were engaged in collusion!!!

Well.....LET'S STOP THE EFFIN PRESSES!!!! Boy, that's good enough for me! Our heroine Lizzy Anne has pulled another one right out of her rectum.

With this post you have blown away ANY remaining credibility that you might have had here.......

RGP is waiting for more quality posters like you....

Give this lady a dozen donuts and a six pack of diet Pepsi.....

Go away..........

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why the heck did you have 56,000 bucks at a poker site anyways? That's insane. It's your own fault for putting yourself at so much risk. Have you ever heard of cashing out as you go? These poker sites aren't banks with the government protecting your assets.

If I was you I'd be supporting this rakefree.com venture 100% as it may be your last best hope to get paid back. Why try to sabotage your best hope for payback? That's you big mistake #2.

Get a brain!!

Love,
Hoppy

[/ QUOTE ]


I heard that MS Sunshine didn't get paid by Pokerspot because he and his wife were playing at the same table and they were helping each other.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yea and that explains all the others who didn't get paid either, now doesn't it.


[/ QUOTE ]


Some people got paid, but people engaged in collusion should not get paid no matter what.



[/ QUOTE ]

The point is, since you are too dense to figure it out on your own, that is NOT why MS didn't get paid.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
Afterall, the guy says himself that the money for his software if sold would go to pay these people back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, but then he backed out of a deal to sell it. All of the assets of the company should have been sold to pay off the creditors, but they weren't.

[Losing all]

Notice how all the cronies keep telling us what Boyd says he's gonna do to maybe someday make it right? "he says this, he says that" one question for the FFOD federation. Why in the f*** would anyone possibly believe what this dirt bag says?

My god, some folks will do anything for money.

[Losing all]

Shows a lot of class to rub someone's face in getting cheated out of 56k. Grow up

[Beach-Whale]

[ QUOTE ]
Dumbass, we're talking about the first-ever online poker site (maybe second, Planet may have been first). Nevertheless, there was nothing to compare it too, this was a new frontier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Planet was way first. Paradise started before PokerSpot. And to my knowledge places like Delta, Highlands Club, and Dragon, were also there before PokerSpot.

[Beach-Whale]

[ QUOTE ]
Having watched the site go down in real time and remembering the events as best I can, what happened to those players who lost funds is, IMHO, outrageous, unethical, and smacks of poor/panicked management grabbing at straws while trying to prop up a failing business. We are talking about some serious player bankrolls here, and I would be hard pressed to believe that Boyd & cronies didn't know exactly what they were doing when they started dipping into players accounts to fund their operation. Without seeing the actual cash disbursements, we will never really know where the money went, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of it didn't eventually end up in his pocket.

Without disclosing confidential information, I know for a fact that Boyd had more than one opportunity to sell the site software after it went down. For whatever reason, that did not happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is my understanding that they didn't "dip into players accounts to fund their operation," but that they never got a large number of deposits (like six weeks worth of them). That's a big difference.

As for the sale, they got an agreement with a Montreal company, which would have included all the players at PokerSpot getting paid, but the Montreal company later backed down on the agreement, and then the other offers were no longer there. If you know anything more, please tell us.

I got this information from Boyds own version in the LAP interview (here: http://www.liveactionpoker.com/articles/boyd/boyd-int/boyd-int.html ).

To those who have wondered what I have meant when I have said that I want something with substance, I mean exactly that I would want to know what are lies in Boyds own account of what happened, and what really happened. I haven't seen any credible such alternative sides except angry namecalling from those who didn't get their money.

And of course I can understand that those who didn't get their money weren't and aren't very happy. But they still need credible accounts for what they say happened, and why the people behind PokerSpot are "crooks". I haven't seen that. Boyds version seems more credible. But I am prepared to listen. I'm actually anxious to listen! But no one seems to be able or willing to give me any credible alternative version of what happened. And until someone does, I will not believe the namecalling from those who naturally are hurt and angry.

I also understand that PokerSpot probably could have handled the situation better. But that does not mean that they sunk their own ship deliberately. That would just seems like such a stupid thing to do, and such a silly thing to believe that they did.

[Beach-Whale]

[ QUOTE ]
Shows a lot of class to rub someone's face in getting cheated out of 56k. Grow up

[/ QUOTE ]

And why would she show more class than most other at this rather class-deprived forum? Really, it's a rather low level on a lot of the threads and posts here...

I don't really critique your critique, but I just wanted to, well, whine a bit I guess, about the in my view often quite low-level attitude and tone on this forum.

[Terry]

You are either the stupidest person I have ever come across or you are one of the top ten slimiest PR spinsters ... cancel that ... you are the stupidest person I have ever come across.

[Tachyon]

Coming from a banking background - I would like to hypothesize on other things that happened when PS was going under.

Credit card deposits from the cc processor were delayed for whatever reason and due to the exponential growth there was not enough funds on deposit to cover these new deposits.

Now I do not know why there were not enough funds to cover the first few cheques that started bouncing - however this was the main problem... once news broke that people were not getting paid - I suspect that every man and their dog called their CC company to cancel the deposits - WIN or LOSE...

Every time a company gets a charge back the credit card processor charges the company a fee...

The losing players charge back because they have a legitimate excuse to, the winning players that didn't get paid charge back their deposits to recoup some of their losses... in the end there is no money left owed to the company... in fact most likely the other way round.

Please note that the above is a complete hypothesis and may or may not reflect what happened in real life.

John

[Beach-Whale]

[ QUOTE ]
You are either the stupidest person I have ever come across or you are one of the top ten slimiest PR spinsters ... cancel that ... you are the stupidest person I have ever come across.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, there's one very good example of what I was talking about. Very low level on that post. Thanks for the excellent example Terry.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
And why would she show more class than most other at this rather class-deprived forum? Really, it's a rather low level on a lot of the threads and posts here...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I can't wait for Dutch Boyd's new class-deprived-free.com site to premiere. It is going to revolutionize online poker discussion forums.

[over_c]

Liveactionpoker.com Article (http://www.liveactionpoker.com/articles/boyd/boyd.html)

I tried to find more articles about the pokerspot crash, but I could only find this one. I am surprised that Card Player, at least, did not have an article regarding something that could have threatened online poker in its infancy. Does anyone have any links to legitimate news sources?

[Beach-Whale]

I am NOT surprised that Card Player hasn't written about it. Card Player NEVER writes ANYTHING negative on any poker business, or poker book, or any other poker product. They are not a serious press in that field/way.

[kdog]

[ QUOTE ]
So after that, it became clear that we’d have to figure out another way to pay the players back. The only way I could see doing that was by selling the business. We had a few assets… a userlist of about 8500 players, some pretty decent software, and a pending patent for the online poker tournaments we developed. We shopped around a bit and had some offers. We finally agreed on an offer from a large Montreal-based online casino. They agreed to give us all jobs and $1 million for the software… $500k would be ear-marked to pay back the players. We moved up to Montreal and started working with them. About four months into the deal, they called us into their office and told us that they were no longer interested in paying back the player debt… they’d give us $300k for the software (which wasn’t nearly enough to pay back the players) and we could still have our jobs with them. We turned it down and decided we’d be better off trying to salvage some of the deals that we had turned down which would include paying back the Pokerspot players. By then, though, none of the old offers still stood. The original developers had to take other jobs, and without them being able to support the software, I was unable to find a buyer.


[/ QUOTE ]

From the same article you linked to. We are supposed to believe:
1. Boyd enters into a million dollar deal with no contract? He has a law degree remember? And he just went through the NetPro fiasco. So this is what....just a slight oversight on his part?

2.$500k was going to be paid to the players but $300k wasn't enough? Wasn't enough for who? The players who'd have gotten 50 or 60 cents on the dollar? Or there wasn't enough for Boyd too so screw doing what's right?

3.There were multiple parties interested but "about four months later" there was suddenly no interest? And there was no capable support staff available?

And here's the real substance. This guy had a chance to do the right thing by a lot of people and come out of the situation with his reputation intact. If he'd been honest with us about the situation and paid what he could I'd have respect for him. But he chose to lie and it looks like he's still lying. So for you Russ Boyd, I have only contempt.

[blackaces13]

Man, I just took about 25 minutes to read this entire thread hoping to see why boyd was kicked off of pokerstars and you know what? Not a single person answered the question. Just an observation.

[Cubswin]

This should tell you that there are more important things to know about Butch Doyd then why he got kick off poker stars.

regards
cubs

[Silybum]

If Pokerspot hadn’t run into cash problems, we would very likely be one of the market leaders today. We had great software which was improving all the time, and we had a 50%/mo growth rate for the four months we were in operation. We did all of that with four people and a budget of $50k.

[ArchAngel71857]

Ooooooo, a Mad Lib

If Pokerspot hadn't "been run by a bunch of milk money stealing goons," we would very likely be "running numbers with the mob" today. We had great "Internet Strippers who were running customer support," and we had a 50%/mo "steal rate" for the four months we "hid from investors and the law." We did all that with "four scumbags, two Asian Strippers, one pimp," and a "budget" "of MS Sunshines $56K."

-AA

[gabyyyyy]

[ QUOTE ]
If Pokerspot hadn’t run into cash problems, we would very likely be one of the market leaders today

[/ QUOTE ]

You must mean the #1 poker market stealers.

[Malone Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Ooooooo, a Mad Lib

If Pokerspot hadn't "been run by a bunch of milk money stealing goons," we would very likely be "running numbers with the mob" today. We had great "Internet Strippers who were running customer support," and we had a 50%/mo "steal rate" for the four months we "hid from investors and the law." We did all that with "four scumbags, two Asian Strippers, one pimp," and a "budget" "of MS Sunshines $56K."

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]

lol..my new favorite response ever..kudos

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If Pokerspot hadn’t run into cash problems, we would very likely be one of the market leaders today

[/ QUOTE ]

You must mean the #1 poker market stealers.

[/ QUOTE ]

HOLY FNG SHILT, we have common ground, something we agree on. Is hell freezing over?

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]
If Pokerspot hadn’t run into cash problems, we would very likely be one of the market leaders today. We had great software which was improving all the time, and we had a 50%/mo growth rate for the four months we were in operation. We did all of that with four people and a budget of $50k.


[/ QUOTE ]
When you say "we", are you saying that you are Dutch Boyd?

[Lori]

Before putting your house on this new venture, you should be aware that

Dutch Boyd: Rakefree. com

is an anagram of:

:.Fucker torched my abode