Arnold Palmer, Cheater?

[andyfox]

According to Ken Venturi's new book, due out March 17, Arnold Palmer cheated when he won his first Masters.
http://sports.excite.com/news/03052004/v5524.html

I wonder how much of the gentlemanly aspect of the game is BS. Tom Watson, if memory serves, accused Gary Player of cheating in the first Skins Game. I saw Charlie Sifford, who had previously won the L.A. Open, in the days when you used to drop the ball behind your back, look over to see who was watching when he was in the trees at Riviera, think nobody was watching closely, and twist the ball to make sure he got a favorable bounce.

Obviously, Andy Fox accusing Charile Sifford on 2+2 is not quite as important as Ken Venturi accusing Arnold Palmer in his book.

[Oski]

That story has been well documented...Venturi has always asserted that Palmer "cheated." This comes up now because of the book (i.m.o.) The controversy died down soon after it happened because Palmer asked for a ruling then played his provisional awaiting an appeal, which was granted 3 holes later.

The officials were on top of the situation the whole time, it can't be said he "cheated" if the officials gave him incorrect relief.

[Ray Zee]

i use to watch palmer, snead, player, nicklaus battle it out all the time. all of them never took any chance of ruining their reputation by doing something out of line. and in those days it was easy as you were alone with your ball at times in the rough, not like nowadys. i have seen them all declare a penalty against them selves for touching their ball with the club face when absolutely no one would have been able to catch them if they kept quiet.

[Rushmore]

Someone wrote a book describing all of my golf cheating, too, but nobody could actually lift it in order to read it, so now they're used mostly as building material.

[andyfox]

The way I understand what Venturi has claimed, is that one must play the provisional at the time one disagrees with the ruling. But Palmer played out his first ball and then played another. At least I believe this is Venturi's claim.

[Oski]

True: but all that was done under the supervision of the officials. If Venturi's interpretation was correct, it would be up to the officials to disallow the provisional. In fact, the officials gave Palmer a ruling 3 HOLES AFTER the provisional, and with full knowledge of the situation. Therefore, the officials gave Palmer the go-ahead. If there was an incorrect ruling, it was the fault of the officials...this can hardly be called "cheating."

I think this is a bush-league move, made to sell books from a guy nobody gives a [censored] about.

[JTrout]

I think this is a bush-league move, made to sell books from a guy nobody gives a [censored] about.

Well said.

[HDPM]

Yeah, the Palmer incident has been talked about for years. Whether you agree with what happened or not, calling it cheating is going too far. I bet Venturi is aware of all kinds of other incidents that are worse. He played himself then had excellent access as a TV guy. But he isn't exposing them. You always hear that the players know who the problem players are and watch a little more. But they don't say who they are. If you want to expose people, why not write about that? Probably because it wouldn't sell and isn't all that scandalous.

I have no specific personal knowledge of what goes on in Tour events - who the more "difficult" players are. Based on what I do know, I think cheating in competitive golf is a very minor problem. A very few people might push a drop location, arguing their ball crossed a hazard line at an impossible place or something. They might push relief. They might fool around marking their ball. Back in the day I am sure guys took a file to a wedge or two. But I just don't think there is much there. Golf is far and away the cleanest competitive sport. Players call penalties on themselves all the time. They take their obligations under the rules seriously. Of course incidents will happen. Golf is played by humans experiencing human pressures, so things will happen. (Er, about that Asian Tour scorecard Vijay, etc....) But they aren't all that prevalent. Nothing to try to sell books over I don't think.

[John Cole]

I'm not sure I'd hold Venturi quite responsible for what he says in in forthcoming "as-told-to" book. In his last couple years at CBS, it seemed apparent to me, anyway, that he could no longer concentrate. He could barely give an answer to a direct question, and when he did answer, he often sidetracked into vague, meaningless digressions unrelated to what he had been asked. Nantz did his best trying to work with Venturi who, at that time, may have been the worst announcer working on television. CBS was kind to keep him around as long as they did.

[Ray Zee]

its good to know he should not be held responsible for bashing one of the worlds most respected golfers. and that cbs does kind things that arent in their best interests. maybe the corporate world is viewed too harshly.

i think a will send a thank you note to my phone company.

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif arnold did get a favourable ruling from the good old boys (cliff and bobby),,; but it was not cheating..he got a "home team call" ; but venturi was outraged and incensed then and ever since..

the golden rule: them that has the gold makes the rules..

gl /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[John Cole]

Ray, you have a phone? (PM me your phone number so I can verify this startling news.) I suspect Venturi may have Alzheimer's, judging from his performance the last couple years on CBS. I'm sure CBS forced his retirement--or maybe no one noticed how truly terrible he was.

[Bill Murphy]

Actually, I believe the ruling was made by an official on the course. Venturi sez Cliff & Bobby later told him the ruling was wrong.

But it don't matter now. Just book promo.