Help with note taking

[krazyace5]

I need to work on note keeping.
What is the best way to do this? Do you do this while playing(seems a bit hectic with more than one table going), or do you go over your hand histories and do it afterwords?

Do you put something simple like fish player, maniac, rock, or do you put lots of details down?

Thanks for any advice.

[lorinda]

The first time a player does something fishy/good I put fish or good (or whatever) with a ? next to it.
If possible I'll put a reason (Fish? raised UTG 49o)

If I then catch them doing something similar on a different session, I'll remove the question mark (Fish, raised UTG 49o, called cap on river 9 high on AKQT8 board)

I try to have specific reasons as to why they are a fish. (Fish, check called AA all the way through pot on K9742 board, only one bet all the way)

This (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=532483&page=&view=&sb =5&o=&vc=1) post by MSS may be of use if you use pokertracker, as may much of that thread.

Lori

[Senor Choppy]

I just started taking notes in Party (not PT), I only jot down info that will be important to me later. Because I play lower limits, what starting hands someone plays isn't that important, unless they play truly random cards. What matters to me is level of aggression, whether they semi-bluff, and whether they'll bet the end for me to check-raise or if they'll try to do the same to me.

If you play higher limits, knowing what they 3 bet or just cold call, how far someone will go with unimproved hands like AK, etc. all gain in importance.

Think about information you wished you had while in the hand and try to make notes of it when available. If you only play a few tables, using Poker Tracker for notes is probably best, but if you have no visual space left on your monitor(s) Party's system for note taking is adequate. The downside to using Party is that you must take the notes while playing (unless you manually edit the .txt file later, which I'm too lazy to do), but you're better off reading a book on the subject or just logging more hours than wasting time with player notes after the fact IMO, especially because of how rarely you'll play with the same people.

[astroglide]

i have found my notes to be very valuable, even when i was playing 3/6. i have thousands of 3/6 notes and it's extremely rare that i sit at a table without at least 1-2 people already commented.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
i have found my notes to be very valuable, even when i was playing 3/6. i have thousands of 3/6 notes and it's extremely rare that i sit at a table without at least 1-2 people already commented.

[/ QUOTE ]

The interesting thing I've noticed is that I usually have about 1-2 per table now as well. I think turnover is the main reason they're not as valuable as some people make them out to be. I think it's only worthwhile if you can jot something down while playing.

I was going through PT a while ago, looking for the people that I've played the most hands against, and trying to make mental notes through old hhs since I assumed these would be the people I'd be playing against the most. But it turns out a vast majority of those people are no longer 3/6 regulars. Davidross is playing 5/10 short, I see many at the full 5/10 or 15/30 tables, and the rest probably moved up or went broke.

[MS Sunshine]

My current rule of thumb is 1K of notes on active players, having played within last 30 days, will get me 1 note at an average table I play. My live tables, $100 NLH and $1020 limit, will be a higher % and almost any multi-table tournament will be much less during early rounds, but later rounds will have a much higher %.

MS Sunshine

[goodguy_1]

I use this PokerTracker note exporter (I was PM'ed by a fellow 2+2'er)for Party/skins for any player that I have played more than 100 hands with.

It's just PT stats.I then can add any specifc non-stat comments above or below his PT stats.

If you play alot like I do 1000-1500 hands per day.You will need to update these notes at least once or twice a week...3 times is even better.
100 hands is barely sufficient but gives you a good idea.Looking at player stats(VIP,PFR,%WSD) rather than cash results is important-we all can run poorly for 200,300 even 500 hands.

This is mostly just numbers doing these PT exports.
Adding your own comments are something I need to work on .I tend to be a little lazy in this regard.

What other ways can I improve on this??

Are there better ways to export notes?

I know PTPat said he was working on a note-exporter but we havent seen it yet?

How big can these notes.txt files get before these cause issues with Party's software??

What do you guys think of the 100-hand standard.Too many or too few??

Any help appreciated..

[Cubswin]

Goodguy

I started by using the 100 hand standard but found that while this will give you a pretty good ballpark figure for VIP, the PFR and W%SD are pretty useless with this small of a sample. Id feel much more comfortable with a 500 hand sample for PFR and an even larger sample for W%SD.

regards
cubswin

[JDErickson]

I find even having as little as 50 hands is helpful. Just base your decisions on the amount of hands also.

If a fish saw 90% of Flops in 25 hands, theres a good chance he's a fish.

Jim

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
I use this PokerTracker note exporter (I was PM'ed by a fellow 2+2'er)for Party/skins for any player that I have played more than 100 hands with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whom did you get this from and where can we find it?

[DrSavage]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I use this PokerTracker note exporter (I was PM'ed by a fellow 2+2'er)for Party/skins for any player that I have played more than 100 hands with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whom did you get this from and where can we find it?



[/ QUOTE ]

I could send you the one I wrote for myself, PM me your email if interested.

[goodguy_1]

yes Cubs I agree.

Lets look at NLHE specifically.I have a total of 51,775 hands in PT for Limit, PLHE and NLHE.

I have played with 12,131 different players(screen-names).28,065 hands are NLHE with 6,178 players.Of those 6,178 only 16 players have played more than 500 hands.A total of 28 have played 400+ hands,47 300+,96 200+ and a whooping 374 100 hands+.

The 100+ hands crowd is still only 6% of total players.

This tells me obviously turnover is huge.What we really need to do is attempt to focus and have good notes on this 5% or so of semi-regular players.On the other 95% note-taking may not be worth the effort.

I would like to limit the screening to 500+ but it just yields too few players.100+ seems about right...200+ hands eliminates too many.50+ hands adds to many!!By adding in these players I add 740 for a total of 1,114 or 18% of total players.I have shied away from using 50 hand screens because that is less than an hour-inadequate in my opinion.The NL tables I play at average 51.37 hph.I found 50 hand screens not accurate enough to be helpful.I dont want my play to be effected by sneaking a peak at some guys numbers after 50 hands-too much thinking and analyzing will hurt me I know personally-it's just better to play straight ahead poker without giving too much weight too possibly faulty PT stats.


sorry if this has become a PT tangent-I do love PT /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
Whom did you get this from and where can we find it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

PM me with your email and I'll send it.

[astroglide]

note: pokertracker's official note export feature is supposed to be released in a week, so it may be worth holding out

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
note: pokertracker's official note export feature is supposed to be released in a week, so it may be worth holding out

[/ QUOTE ]

am i the only one that already has PT's note exporter? you people are confusing me /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[astroglide]

see the rest of the thread. i'm referring to automatic generation of notes via pokertracker statistics.

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
I find even having as little as 50 hands is helpful

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, having 50 hands can be helpful. You can get a really good idea about someones V$IP% based upon 50 hands. However, you can not get a really good idea of someones PFR% based on 50 hands. It could just be that they caught 5 group 1 hands during these 50 hands. If this was the case their PFR% would be at least 10% but this does not necessarily mean that this person is agressive preflop... it just means that they caught some cards.

regards
cubs

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
see the rest of the thread. i'm referring to automatic generation of notes via pokertracker statistics

[/ QUOTE ]

im not sure where in the context of the thread it is made clear you are talking about the automatic generation of notes.... but i thank you none the less for clearing this up /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[astroglide]

I use this PokerTracker note exporter (I was PM'ed by a fellow 2+2'er)for Party/skins for any player that I have played more than 100 hands with.


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Whom did you get this from and where can we find it?

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
im not sure where in the context of the thread it is made clear you are talking about the AUTOMATIC generation of notes....

[/ QUOTE ]

[astroglide]

it's very clear to me. he was pm'd it. it wasn't a part of pokertracker itself. it generates notes for players with whom you have played more than 100 hands.

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
it's very clear to me. he was pm'd it. it wasn't a part of pokertracker itself. it generates notes for players with whom you have played more than 100 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok...now i see where in this thread it talks about automatically generating notes /images/graemlins/tongue.gif The reader who has no knowledge of this automatic note generating program just might think goodguy was emailed a patch for PT which allows him to export notes. Ok...lets get back to poker /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MicroBob]

yeah...i'm very much looking forward to pat's version of the stats/notes exporter. this should really ROCK.

i think 50 hds is sufficient to get a read on some players.
if they PFR 35% of the time or are VP$IP 45% of time you can safely assume they are fish.
it is POSSIBLE they just caught a run of good cards....but probably not.
if they PFR 2% and VP$IP 10% then i assume they are ultra-tight and i will respect their raises...even if these stats are after only 50 hds.

obviously there are a lot of players whose stats won't tell you much. but 40-50hds can get you a read on SOME players and these are the ones you probably want to play the most with (and isolate the most) anyway.

i had one guy on p-tracker with 40 hds who had VP$IP 94%. wouldn't mind playing with that guy again.