Big Suited Connectors

[DanTheCardMan]

How do you play these? I'm talking KQs, KJs and QJs. I'm not comfortable with them at all for a few reasons. Don't like them in early position because I don't want to have to call a raise with them, especially if there's a small pot. Don't like them in the later positions because if *I* raise with them it's most likely (at least in the micro limit tables) that an A is going to stay in. Then if an A hits the board, I won't know where I'm at. Not to mention that a flush only wins about 5% of the time, and even then you're not assured of a win as someone could be holding bigger flush cards.

I've been looking for one last set of cards to cut as I continue to tighten my game and I think this is it. If I do, the only time I would consider playing them is by limping in while in LP with a loose/passive table.

What do the more experienced folks think?

[blackaces13]

In a micro game those are great cards. I'd raise with most of those from middle positon or later. Those cards play well multi-way and they play well shorthanded. These are some of the strongest hands in the game you have here aside from pocket-pairs and Big-Slick. Don't worry about calling a raise with these in EP, if you're not in EP then you make the raise.

Dan, have you read Winning Low Limit Hold em by Lee Jones? If not I think it is worth about 100X the asking price.

[Nottom]

You are way undervaluing those hands if you are thinking about throwing them away preflop. In 90% of microlimit games I am happy to play any of those hands from any position and will nearly always raise from LP after limpers.

Who cares about knocking out Aces, you aren't planning on winning unimproved and if an A hits the flop no one is forcing you to continue playing. The fact is KQ will be a dominating position when it flops top pair the vast majority of the time in these games in an unraised pot KJ/QJ are a bit worse off but still in decent shape against poor opponents and when you do flop a nice draw and make a flush you will win far more often than you lose.

An important thing to remember about hands like this is that even though you may only make a flush 5% of the time, you will flop a 4-flush quite often and often this will enable you to catch a pair late in the hand and win a pot you would have had to fold without the flush possibility.

[LetsRock]

IF you won't play these cards, don't play at all. These are great cards. As the others have said, there's usually no problem calling a raise from EP (if you're facing multiple raises, then you need to evaluate the situation), and rasing from LP with KQs is often a good play.

You won't always hit your flop, but you'll often catch a good draw or a solid top pair. You need to be able to lay it down if the flop misses you and theres a lot of aggression. But these rules apply to all big hands.

Learn to love these hands. These are the kinds of hands most of us are waiting around for.

[Mike Gallo]

As the others have said, there's usually no problem calling a raise from EP (if you're facing multiple raises, then you need to evaluate the situation

You will call an ep players raise with KJ suited or JQ suited? I dont agree at all, not if the player has normal raising standards.

and raising from LP with KQs is often a good play.

I agree with this statement.

I have to disagree with cold calling raises. Unless I think the player has suspect raising standards I will muck K 10 suited KJ suited JQ suited or J10 suited for a single raise.

Then again I think this has to do with micro limits, so I might not have taken that into consideration.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been looking for one last set of cards to cut as I continue to tighten my game and I think this is it. If I do, the only time I would consider playing them is by limping in while in LP with a loose/passive table.



[/ QUOTE ]

If you truly need to tighten your game, I would bet money that there are a lot more hands you should cut ahead of these. In general, you can play these hands for one bet from any position against any number of players.

Don't coldcall an EP raise with these hands. You can coldcall a MP or LP raise with KQs, QJs, JTs only if there are multiple players already in (4+ opponents) and the raiser isn't super-tight.

[Mike Gallo]

Don't worry about calling a raise with these in EP, if you're not in EP then you make the raise.

Do you often call early position raises with dominated hands?

[hutz]

MG: I think he was talking about calling one more bet if he limps in EP and it's raised behind him. In that case, it would be tough not to justify calling the extra bet. It might be different at the micro limits, but I'm not realy keen on limping in EP with JTs, QJs, KTs, etc. I'll raise KQs and sometimes limp/sometimes raise KJs.

Dan: Others have already said it, but it bears repeating -- don't play the game if you're not comfortable playing big suited cards. There must be other cards you can cut out of your game if you want to tighten up. You're fighting with one hand tied behind your back if you don't play big suited cards.

[LetsRock]

Of course, everything is situational. Unless the player is a known rock, I'll usually (not always) take peek at the flop with big suiters. If you hit the flop big with these hands, thay can be big pot draggers and it's usually pretty easy to get away from them if they miss.

[DanTheCardMan]

After reading the comments here I'm definitely rethinking the big suited connector thing. After reading what a few have said, I feel a bit more confident about playing them and will continue to do so.

If I get them in EP I'll limp and call a raise from MP or LP (unless the game or player is very tight), or I'll raise from MP or LP, especially if there are no limpers. I'll fold if EP raises and there aren't at least 4 in the pot (or I don't anticipate there being 4 more in the pot) by the time it gets to me. (All of this with a certain amount of variance, of course.)

As time goes on I'll come back to tell how I did with them, and probably post some hands as well.

[Mike Gallo]

I think he was talking about calling one more bet if he limps in EP and it's raised behind him. In that case, it would be tough not to justify calling the extra bet.

Gotcha,he limps the button raises he would call. I do not have a problem with that.

[blackaces13]

What I meant was limping in UTG then having to call a raise after an LP player raised behind you. That's what he mentioned as being afraid of. No, I'd dump KJs or QJs to an EP raise, but I'd still have to play KQs, I CAN'T lay that hand down pre-flop in micro, maybe its a mistake.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
What I meant was limping in UTG then having to call a raise after an LP player raised behind you. That's what he mentioned as being afraid of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, maybe he didn't mean that but that's how I interpreted it. Upon reading it again it could mean either calling a raise cold or calling after a later raise. The latter is no prob as I'm sure we agree.

[blackaces13]

And apparently the entire content of my last 2 posts has been thoroughly covered already. From this point on I vow to actually read the replies to a post before I reply to it myself. That way we'll all save a lot of time and I won't look like an ass as much.

[RydenStoompala]

Sorry I'm with the crowd on this but when I saw your question I just had to respond. Big suited connectors are among the best two cards you can play, especially with everyone and their grandmother going to the flop. Post flop they are easy to play; you either have something or you don't. In micro-limits it's nearly sesneless playing an overpair since you have the 2-7 offsuit types raising from middle position and then playing into you with trips. In real games, you can play by the book and do quite well. Try it, you'll like it.