WLLH vs. TOP & HEP

[Warik]

I purchased WLLH a few weeks ago and have made use of it to do pretty decently live and on Party. I would like to purchase TOP and HEP to expand my library and increase my skill level but have never tried combining 3 sources of information for this purpose. I'm sure that some of the information will conflict in the 3 books, particularly in starting hand requirements (I keep hearing the WLLH is too loose preflop) and postflop play (I keep hearing WLLH is too weak postflop).

Would you recommend I buy TOP first or HEP first? Which explanation of particular categories of information should I favor in one book over the other? I play $1/$2 live and micro limits online at this time.

[coollyc]

TOP is just that mostly theory and odds. HEP is a good starter book, but the book that will help you the most is HEP for the Advanced player 21st century. Great detail on position starting hands, flop, 4th st river. every thing you could want, However very important to read TOP at some point to help you understan the reasoning behing these plays. Not necessarily first, but a must read.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
the book that will help you the most is HEP for the Advanced player 21st century.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't HEP for the Advanced Player not useful for low-limit games where people love to play any two and check-call to the river? I read somewhere (I think here) that I shouldn't read it until I was planning to play 5/10 and up.

[coollyc]

That is probably true, however It still covers correct play wich should be learned no matter what level. The lower lever games are tougher because most of the bluffing section becomes useless, the rest of the book is certainly going to help you!

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the book that will help you the most is HEP for the Advanced player 21st century.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't HEP for the Advanced Player not useful for low-limit games where people love to play any two and check-call to the river? I read somewhere (I think here) that I shouldn't read it until I was planning to play 5/10 and up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no, there are so many concepts that will help your game no matter what limit you play, YOU MUST BUY THIS BOOK. However, as I have stated before, read Theory of Poker first, that's just my opinion, but I think you will find more value out of both if you read TOP first, then read HEPFAP, then read TOP again and continue in that cycle until the concepts are engrained in your head. Trust me, I freely admit I only rarely venture into the 2/4 limit online and those two books combined have been the sole reason that I have been successful at the lower limits. I too read Jones first and it is a fantastic starter book, none better. But, to advance in your play at ANY limit, you need TOP and HPFAP. I have read HEP prior to reading both of those and honestly, I don't think it's necessary.

[winky51]

I agree use the Lee Jones book and the Sklansky books. I would also make a cliff notes for yourself as you read it. And after you read it play some, then read it again, and again, and again....

I have started in 1/1/2004 playing poker. I have read 8 books on the subject and those are the better ones. Currently I have made over $2000 in 3 months. I had a bad 3 weeks that I corrected after rereading. Thats why its important to reread those books. You WILL FORGET things and screw up. The cliff notes I made really helped too.

Al

[scotnt73]

here is my experience personally:
1)i started out and lost over 500$ in 4 months.
2)read wllh and became a break even player that made a profit by bonus whoring
3)kept learning/playing and read hpfap and became a slight winner
4)kept playing/learning and read top and became a successful low limit player who is getting close to breaking into the mid limit games

[moondogg]

The 21st century edition (probably the only one you can get these days), has an expanded section for playing loose games. However, just like the name of the book implies, it is how to play loose games for advanced players.
Sklansky's methods are more challenging, period. However, they are also far more rewarding. WLLH will help you become a winner at low limits, but HEP and HEPFAP will help you become a solid player that can consistenly beat low and some mid limits. However, before applying Sklansky's advice, you must have some experience under your belt as to when and how to apply certain concepts: If you try to semibluff in low limit games, you will lose. There is very little successful bluffing in low limits, just value bets (which are far more profitable).
The appoarch I would suggest is to first learn WLLH inside and out. Memorize it and live by it. After you have mastered it, read TOP and HEP. Begin to work some of these ideas into your strategy, keeping in mind that not all of it applies to low limits. When you run into a conflict between Jones and Sklansky, post some hands relating to it in the Micro-Limit forum and ask for advice. After you've adjusted to this style, dive into HEPFAP; this will be the most difficult step, and it will be the phase where you change from learning to mastering (low limits).
Take it slow. Don't just understand what you are doing, understand why. If some approach or advice doesn't make sense to you or conflicts with something else, figure out why. In the end, you won't be playing by a script (the WLLH approach), you will be playing by judgment and experience (the HEPFAP approach). However, in the beginning, lacking experience and judgment, you have to learn the basics, and I feel that the WLLH script is the best way to do that.

Good luck,
Mooney