stopngo turns on party 15/30

[astroglide]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, CO calls $26 (All-In), Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players, 1 all-in)</font>
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (12.20 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players, 1 all-in)</font>
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP2 raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero folds, MP2 caps, UTG calls.

River: (21.20 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
UTG checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 21.20 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows 8c Tc (two pair, tens and eights).
MP2 shows Qc Qs (two pair, queens and twos).
CO shows Ad Kc (one pair, twos).
Outcome: MP2 wins 21.20 BB. </font>

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $15.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button folds, Hero completes, BB folds.

Flop: (4 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO raises, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, CO bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG+1 shows Ah Th (high card, ace).
CO shows Qs Qh (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: CO wins 12 BB. </font>

i bet the turn in hand 1 intending to fold to 1 raise. stopngo on the turn seems to be a very good way to identify when you're losing in non-crazy party 15/30 games.

[DcifrThs]

I totally agree and its done wonders for me as well...its amazing how many people a) play wierd hands on the flop and make 'em on the turn, and b) wait till the turn to show aggression with their big hands which is too late for these poor players (double meaning here meant) who are now gunna get their 1 pocket pair cracked.

i make a note to almost never slowplay big pairs. the one time i do is when i intend on backraising from a REALLY early position.

good post, good play in both hands. quick question: did you read the stop and go thread in the older archives too?
-Barron

[astroglide]

no, i don't think i read that one.

[DcifrThs]

damn, i wish i could point you in the direction but its been a while and i don't know where it is /images/graemlins/frown.gif sorry. anyways the conclusion was you need a game like the ones we play in to make it a good play. some thought it was weak, some thought it was good but overall it was a negative reaction except in the right game....ours /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Barron

[secret156]

Hand 1: I don't like betting this on the turn. About the worst thing that could happen to you is that MP2 will check behind you if you check, but there's no real draw out there, and would he really 3-bet the flop with some overcards like AK? Even though you have top pair, it's likely that you're the underdog here. The pot is giving you sufficient odds to call one bet, so I would check, let MP2 bet, and call if it's just one bet to you. You never know, you might even get MP2 to check on the river. Of course, in this case, UTG would still have check-raised on the turn, so you would have folded there, but that's irrelevant.

Hand 2: Did BB really fold pre-flop?? Wow. Anyway, this hand is totally different, and your play was perfect. About the only question is whether it's worth it to call with J9o in the SB. Maybe.

[bad beetz]

I don't like it in #2 cause you're paying the bet either way, but you don't get to see if you river a straight or not.

[astroglide]

the party 15/30 has a $10 small blind. any hand is playable.

[astroglide]

it stops somebody from checking through with a ten or a six. once i get raised (and certainly if it's 2 bets back to me) i know i'm only playing 4 outs and i fold. i bet because i thought i could have the best hand and didn't want to give a free card. once raised, that position changed.

[MarkD]

I think it would be more correct to say "nearly any hand is playable". I'm still folding hands such as 72o.

Having said that J9o is a very very easy call in the SB here.

[SoBeDude]

Didn't DS post here in the last few months saying they changed their stance on this a bit?

If I recall correctly, they tightened up their requirements for completing this SB, although J9o is surely playable.

I think they're now recommending you still toss the pure crap hands.

-Scott

[Senor Choppy]

I think this play invites turn raises by mediocre hands. If I was in hand #1 and I saw someone do this that I've seen fold occasionally, I'd probably raise with 77 or similar (if for some reason I was still in on the turn). I think your kicker is just weak enough to make the play. If you had QT instead of JT, I think I'd be more worried about putting myself in a situation like this. Would you have bet the turn with QT as well?

For hand #2 I like it. Since you're the one with the mediocre holding, there's never been a better time /images/graemlins/smile.gif The fact that the board is so coordinated also helps b/c of the numerous ways you're beat anyway compared to the first hand. Good fold here.

BTW, when opponents generally only play QQ, it's best not to limp with jack high.

[DcifrThs]

YUP. you got it... i think their definition of 'pure crap' hands is any two cards that are not close enough to flop a straight...so any three gappers and big littles unsuited are the 'pure crap' their talking about.

well, at leat that was the initial definition, but would you toss k5, or a6 in the sb? clearly not so that above definition relates to qx and jx unsuited. if j2o is not playable here, is q7o worth a call?

questions? comments?
-Barron

PS-sorry to turn this into a discussion about sb play in two chip three chip situations so no need to respond in that regard.

[astroglide]

i'll pitch 72o if there are 2-3 limpers and i'm in the sb because the likelihood of the blind raising is decent online and i would have wasted $5. if it's 1 limper i'll play it because i can still win if i hit a flop. with 3+ opponents that gets a lot harder with low cards.

[astroglide]

If I was in hand #1 and I saw someone do this that I've seen fold occasionally, I'd probably raise with 77 or similar (if for some reason I was still in on the turn)

i don't think i do it often enough to promote taking shots at me, as that is something that i try to monitor. if i do end up in such a situation i will note the guy that raised me so that i stopngo him with good hands. as far as raising 77 in that situation if the tables were turned, that is probably my biggest current leak: angrily raising stopngos.

Would you have bet the turn with QT as well?

i think KT would be my cutoff. overcalling the river (assuming the blind didn't checkraise the turn) with QT would not feel right.

[SoBeDude]

Actually I find this discussion interesting and helpful.

With K5o, I'd probably see the flop, although my gut is telling me I should fold. What flop do I want to see with K5o that I like? (um besides the obvious K5, KK, 55, etc)

A6o is a different story. I'm completing here for sure.

-Scott

[astroglide]

kxx is a fine flop for k5 3-handed