typical party 15/30 hand

[astroglide]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold 'Em (9 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button caps, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (21.66 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, BB folds, MP1 calls, Hero caps, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (16.83 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (28.83 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 31.83 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
MP1 shows 9c 9s (one pair, nines).
Hero shows Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
Button shows 3s 3d (straight, six high).
Outcome: Button wins 31.83 BB. </font>

[mike l.]

why 3 bet the turn? it's pretty clear youre beat.

[astroglide]

he capped preflop and 3bet the flop. people will play jacks, kings, and queens (or the other aces) this hard on party. the other guy looked like he was going to mopily cold-call the whole way down with some crappy pair.

[secret156]

MP1 has JJ or QQ, button probably has KK (or maybe even AA!)
Of course, that's assuming rational play. Given that it's Party, button probably has QJo and MP1 has 72 for a runner-runner straight, but is so drunk he doesn't know it.

Seriously, I think you played it perfectly. The only thing I may have done differently is check-called the river instead of betting out.

Now, I'll go back and see what the other two guys actually had! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AJo Go All In]

no it's not.

[astroglide]

i hadn't seen these two spaz-capping every street in the previous (albeit few) hands. i could see people calling with much worse, but it's hard for them to raise a non-powerhouse with a better straight and now a flush possibility out there. i figured a set or even a 3 could just call. especially a 3, given how the people who end up in these kinds of pots with a 3 seem to have jekyll/hyde over and underaggression. similar line of thinking to the call, call, bet routine with KK out of position on an Axxxx board. i also thought checking could set up a checkraise 'knock the guy with a bigger overpair out so i'm heads up with the crazy' for mp1.

i would have called 1 raise back, but not two.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
why 3 bet the turn? it's pretty clear youre beat.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is? Given the action pre-flop and on the flop, I was sure Button had KK or QQ. When he raises the turn, he'll have a hand like that more often than a small set or a 3.

[secret156]

The pattern map obviously suggested he had 33.

[SA125]

Quote:
"Why 3 bet the turn? it's pretty clear youre beat."

Ulysses - "It is? Given the action pre-flop and on the flop, I was sure Button had KK or QQ. When he raises the turn, he'll have a hand like that more often than a small set or a 3."

I'm thinking the results will show another post where the button had K's and the hero wins again or hopefully MP had A3s, stupidly raised it and then sat on his cards, stumbling badly into a monster pot.

Your instincts telling you hold the 3 bet cause your somehow beat on the turn - yeah. I don't think the button's non-stop action and that board alone tell you you're beat.

[mike l.]

ive been playing on empire a lot (10-20 6 handed), and when they get to raising and reraising on the turn and river they tend to have it. "it" being the nuts or near nuts.

i was joking to clarkmeister, and dont get me wrong the games are unreal, but i just dont seem to have the same luck on party value betting 66 into 3 players on a AKJ94 board as you seem to.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
ive been playing on empire a lot (10-20 6 handed)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, that's my game! I wonder if I've been playing against you...

[ QUOTE ]
when they get to raising and reraising on the turn and river they tend to have it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's definitely the case w/ some opponents. But there are plenty of nutjobs in those games. Nutjob being pretty much the opposite of nutpeddler. Game selection, mike. When I used to play long online sessions, I would jump around a fair amount looking for these clowns. Now my average session is about an hour, often 15 to 30 minutes, so I just pick some tables that look good, preferably w/ a couple of known clowns sitting.

[ QUOTE ]
i just dont seem to have the same luck on party value betting 66 into 3 players on a AKJ94 board as you seem to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just like my river checkraises, I have a pretty spotless track record w/ super-thin value bets. That's 'cause I don't often value bet 66 into AKJ94. But when I do, it's because I'm positive 22 will call me.

Edited to add: Note that the turn action being discussed in the hand is far different from the razor-thin value bets we're alluding to here. In this case, a guy capped pre-flop and three-bet the flop. A big pocket pair is a very reasonable, in fact the most reasonable, read. Much more likely than a three and since he won't put you on a three either, a big pair will almost always raise here.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
ive been playing on empire a lot (10-20 6 handed), and when they get to raising and reraising on the turn and river they tend to have it. "it" being the nuts or near nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

the 10-handed 15/30 games are often more aggressive than the 6max 10/20.