Betting out /w a 4-flush on the board.

[Oblivious]

Say for example you have A /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif in MP and open raise (im not saying this is a good move neccesarilly, just humor me for a bit). The CO and button call, the blinds fold.

Flop is: A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

You check to the button who bets, then you raise. CO cold calls and button calls.

Turn is 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

You bet out and get called by CO and button.

River is 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Now theres a 4-flush on the board... what do you do?

What do you do if you were heads up with the button the whole hand?

[webiggy]

You're in big trouble with this hand. It is only two pair afterall meaning you have four outs. Go into weak tight mode and check/call to the river from the flop on and hope you get lucky.

[sthief09]

I completely disagree. He almost certainly has a better hand than his opponents now. As a result, he should be getting as many bets in the pot as possible. When the diamond falls, check. If one bets and another calls, or raises, you could be in trouble. If the 2nd checks, adn the 3rd bets, it might be worth a call.

[webiggy]

I don't see how. You c/r with top two pair - representing strenght on an all flush board and then get called to the river? Not to mention an open raise to boot. Then a fourth card of the same suit hits. You're screwed, plain and simple. I might bet and fold to a raise on the river, but I would likely check and call and save myself a bet. I just don't see TPTK staying in this hand unless they themselves are on flush draws. Hero is out of position with two pair against a board and two players screaming flush. This is -EV all the way.

But come and play at my table any time.

[JPNet]

I know this is results oriented and therefore may not reflect proper play, but I have seen this happen several times where there are 4 of the same suit on board, and 3 or 4 players stay in, and nobody has 1 of that suit.

Just last night, when the 4th came up on the turn, one player bet, 2 dropped and the last called. On the river, 1 bet, the other called. A pair of Qs took the pot.

This may be a case of medium to large pot, check/call, small pot fold?

[Wayne]

I check/fold.

The CO called two bets preflop, two bets on the flop, and a bet on the turn. What hand can he have that you can beat? AK? KQ? A8? Maybe he has one of these hands, but it is unlikely that both the CO and Button have a hand you can beat.

[spamuell]

I check/fold.

Don't. The pot is 9BB here, you only need to be right 1 time in 10 to break even on your bet/call.

I think betting out and folding to a raise is OK (provided opponents aren't particularly tricky) and check-calling isn't too bad either, I really don't know which of these plays is better.

But check-folding is immeasurably worse than either of them.

[fluff]

As with anything this opponent dependent, but check-call if it's one bet to you, check-fold if it's 2 bets back to you is probably standard if you do not have any reads whatsoever.

Betting out will not benefit you any, because those who have a flush will at least call, those who don't won't pay you off.

[Wayne]

[ QUOTE ]
I check/fold.

Don't. The pot is 9BB here, you only need to be right 1 time in 10 to break even on your bet/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Head-up, I'm right more than once in ten times. Plus a single opponent might bluff at it.

But with two others protecting the pot, it is less likely for either to make a bluff at it. If you check, the CO bets and Button calls, what hands will they have that you can beat?

[Oblivious]

[ QUOTE ]
I think betting out and folding to a raise is OK (provided opponents aren't particularly tricky) and check-calling isn't too bad either, I really don't know which of these plays is better.

[/ QUOTE ]


I bring this up because I was in a simlar situation. I dont have the hand history, so i couldnt relate it perfectly, but the end result was: button had 88 for a flopped set. I check/called, but kicked myself because I think betting out might be better if im willing to fold to a raise. If I had bet out, he would have folded the river often enough for it to be +ev.

I think in situations where you have two pair, if youre willing to spend one bet on calling the late position bettor, you might as well bet out with that one bet if he'll fold a better hand. Better hands are a high two pair (not in this case), trips, or even a straight (not in this case).

CO did call two bets cold on the flop, but he didnt have a flush... trip 8s took it down.

[Oblivious]

I also want to make the point that even the nut straight will not raise in this situation. Only diamonds will raise, in which case you can be extemely comfortable with a fold.

[webiggy]

Don't forget, it only takes one diamond to win this pot. You might find that you may just get a call from a low card just to see. It is true that in questionable situations that the first one to fire a shot will win. The problem I have with this particular hand is that you could not get rid of these opponents anyway. Remember it's not about winning pots, it's about EV..,