30/60 and 15/30 on Party...

[Senor Choppy]

Anyone play these games consistently and have $/hour figure they would care to share? I played the 15/30 game and was doing pretty well but had less than 10k hands in PT so my results weren't really relevant. Have since been playing 3/6 exclusively due to the easier competition and lower variance.

Anyone move up from lower limits recently? How profitable did you find these games compared to 3/6 on a per table basis? And if anyone wants to share info on 5/10 or 10/20 don't hesitate /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CrackerZack]

I'd share but since we're obviously of the exact same skill level and making the exact same adjustments to different tables, I don't feel I need to. You should have it already.

[astroglide]

my 3/6 6 table rate was ~$60/hr and my 15/30 6 table rate is ~$285/hr, but i've got 300 hours of 3/6 and only 20ish of 15/30. the jury is *REALLY* out on 15/30 for me as far as what i can expect in the long term for hourly rate and swings.

as far as profit i'd say it seems at least equal, but an order of magnitude higher in variance. i had to make a signifigant adjustments. obviously different than 3/6, but i'd say it's equally different from the paradise 20/40 and 15/30 games i have frequented over the years as well. the full 15 games are often more loose/aggressive than the 6max games. it's does not seem to bear any resemblance to even the party 15/30 of a year ago.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd share but since we're obviously of the exact same skill level and making the exact same adjustments to different tables, I don't feel I need to. You should have it already.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have what exactly? I've only played around 10k hands at this limit and am simply asking for advice from people with significant statistical results, if they're in the mood to share that sort of thing.

I couldn't care less if you never attempted to respond to another post of mine again, but if you want to continue to make an ass of yourself publicly for my own, and everyone else's amusement, feel free /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CrackerZack]

I should. I'm good at it.

Serious question... What is this data for? Seriously? The work day is over now so I'm less annoyed than I was earlier so I'm genuinely interested now and not being sarcastic. Are you trying to gauge what is possible in this game? I'm one of like 4 people on this site who thinks babbling about win-rates and all the riches we've garnered is obnoxious so I don't post mine but I know of a few players that play quite differently from me but we have very similar win rates. If we both moved to new games would our win rates remain similar? I don't think so as our games are very different. Just that our different games yeilded similar results in that game. When the game changes, the similarity in win rates should also. Am I making any sense? So I'm curious, are you asking because if others who made 2 BBs/hr in the 3-6 make 2 BBs in the 15/30, you're assuming you can do the same? Or are you just trying to get an approximate max that can be made up there?

This post isn't meant to be sarcastic at all. If it seems it its not intended.

Zack

[Vehn]

Actually there's only 2, its you and me and my ego takes up the other 2 spots.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I should. I'm good at it.

Serious question... What is this data for? Seriously? The work day is over now so I'm less annoyed than I was earlier so I'm genuinely interested now and not being sarcastic. Are you trying to gauge what is possible in this game? I'm one of like 4 people on this site who thinks babbling about win-rates and all the riches we've garnered is obnoxious so I don't post mine but I know of a few players that play quite differently from me but we have very similar win rates. If we both moved to new games would our win rates remain similar? I don't think so as our games are very different. Just that our different games yeilded similar results in that game. When the game changes, the similarity in win rates should also. Am I making any sense? So I'm curious, are you asking because if others who made 2 BBs/hr in the 3-6 make 2 BBs in the 15/30, you're assuming you can do the same? Or are you just trying to get an approximate max that can be made up there?

This post isn't meant to be sarcastic at all. If it seems it its not intended.

Zack

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about moving back to 15/30 or at least playing half of my hours there, half at the 3/6 tables. The only reason I hesitate is because the 3/6 is so good. I would hate to give up a good month of 3/6 to play 15/30, only to find out winning more than $100/hour just isn't possible (which would be the only amount that would make the swings worthwhile for me). And I wasn't asking how much the average 3/6 player can make playing 15/30 as I agree, the games are different and require a different set of skills.

Yes, I'm really curious what a good but not great player makes playing 15/30, what is possible given the aggressive but still somewhat fishy nature of the 15/30 players at Party.

I think it's obnoxious to post your win rate for other people to ooh and ahh over, but if asked I see no problem sharing if someone feels like it. I've made about the same in bb/table hour for both 3/6 and 15/30 in my brief stint there (although never playing more than 3 tables) and what to known if other people have had the same experience, that's all.

[astroglide]

i would NOT suggest playing 3/6 and 15/30 together, or even flipping between the two. the differences for me seem too great, and i believe i would give up too much in each adjustment period. it's a great racket if you can nerve the swings (i dropped 3 grand very quickly the first night i tried), but i would suggest cutting over completely.

i've gotten pretty desensitized to playing higher limits online, but 6 tables of 15 is pretty intense. i had entertained the idea of playing 6*3/6 when i didn't feel like hazarding any stress on a particular evening, but the pots look small to me now and the difference in play is very stark.

gimme a month or so and i'll be able to provide a more believable sampling/rate. i could use less competition anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[OnlinePokerCoach]

I find it interesting that you think 3/6 is so profitable and your options are therefore 3/6 and 15/30. What about the other limits? There are 5/10 and 10/20 in there too. Others have also commented about 3/6 being very soft and therefore their favourite limit at Empire/Party.

Personally, I found 5/10 to be more profitable than 3/6 for me, even in terms of BB per hour, let along $ per hour. I think it has something to do with my style of play. Perhaps I am not adjusting ideally to the very loose games.

15/30 is fun and the big wins are fantastic. The nasty party is when those big losing nights start piling up: -$1,200 one night, -$1,000 the next, etc. It starts to make you yearn for days of less variance.

I echo some of the comments from other posters about finding the posting of win rates to be obnoxious, although, granted, it is educational at the same time. It's like speaking of salaries in real life: you are kind of interested in what the other guy makes, but everyone knows its just not polite conversation. I'm rambling now and definitely getting off topic, but this issue relates to how I always regret talking about my poker "success" (<groan>) with friends and co-workers. It seems like a good idea, and often I do it because they ask about it. Afterwards, though, I feel a bit sick.

[astroglide]

3/6 and 15/30 are the only limits on party that are loose and allow somebody to play 4-8 tables at once. 5/10 seems to be a rock garden compared to the 3/6 games - i wouldn't want it even if there were many games available. win rates aren't exactly synonymous because we're all doing (or trying to do) the same thing. if somebody says a big number, it should only mean that it's achievable. if an orthodontist tells you his practice brings in high 6 digits per annum, it doesn't help much unless you're already in the field.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
i would NOT suggest playing 3/6 and 15/30 together, or even flipping between the two. the differences for me seem too great, and i believe i would give up too much in each adjustment period. it's a great racket if you can nerve the swings (i dropped 3 grand very quickly the first night i tried), but i would suggest cutting over completely.

i've gotten pretty desensitized to playing higher limits online, but 6 tables of 15 is pretty intense. i had entertained the idea of playing 6*3/6 when i didn't feel like hazarding any stress on a particular evening, but the pots look small to me now and the difference in play is very stark.

gimme a month or so and i'll be able to provide a more believable sampling/rate. i could use less competition anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I tried 5/10 and 3/6 at the same time but never 15/30 and 3/6 (or if I did I don't remember), and really only thought about a few hours of one exclusively then a few hours of the other.

I never really entertained the idea of more than 4 15/30 games, although I suppose if I was as comfortable with the game as I am with 3/6 it might seem reasonable later. 3/6 is really a game I can play in my sleep, but 15/30 I really have to force myself into a particular style. I'm very impressed if you're sitting at 6 15 games at once, just thinking of the first time I sat at 3 at once gives me a rush.

I can't wait to hear some numbers. Send me a PM once you hit 25k hands or so.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that you think 3/6 is so profitable and your options are therefore 3/6 and 15/30. What about the other limits? There are 5/10 and 10/20 in there too. Others have also commented about 3/6 being very soft and therefore their favourite limit at Empire/Party.

Personally, I found 5/10 to be more profitable than 3/6 for me, even in terms of BB per hour, let along $ per hour. I think it has something to do with my style of play. Perhaps I am not adjusting ideally to the very loose games.

15/30 is fun and the big wins are fantastic. The nasty party is when those big losing nights start piling up: -$1,200 one night, -$1,000 the next, etc. It starts to make you yearn for days of less variance.

I echo some of the comments from other posters about finding the posting of win rates to be obnoxious, although, granted, it is educational at the same time. It's like speaking of salaries in real life: you are kind of interested in what the other guy makes, but everyone knows its just not polite conversation. I'm rambling now and definitely getting off topic, but this issue relates to how I always regret talking about my poker "success" (<groan>) with friends and co-workers. It seems like a good idea, and often I do it because they ask about it. Afterwards, though, I feel a bit sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I looked at 5/10 briefly and see almost none of the jaw-dropping bad play that's so apparent in 3/6. Also, I think 3/6 suits my style more because I can play more brain dead than is necessary in upper limits, therefore more tables, and obviously more per hour. If 7 people see a flop you can look, see if you have top pair or a draw, and if you don't pretty much move on to the next table. But if you're playing 5/10 and seeing most flops 3 way, every decision is important and it's difficult to play your A game if you aren't monitoring other players as much. I think if you're used to upper limits, it's hard for good players to come to the realization of just how ABC play should be for 3/6 and they FPS themselves to death.

I really don't enjoy playing this game anymore. I don't get excited about big wins but I feel terrible about big losses. I play tournaments for fun but the rest is mostly a grind. 3/6 is profitable and low stress. The fact that it is no longer fun really doesn't matter, compared to every other job I've ever had, I truly feel like I have the dream job and wouldn't trade it for anything. It might actually help to be mostly disinterested in a game like 3/6 because I have no interest in making some amazing semi-bluff or doing anything else extraordinary, other than bet solid hands and win the occasional pot.

I guess I've never been the type to think talking about salaries or hourly rate is out of the ordinary. For poker especially it's more than just an act of curiosity, it helps to make sure you're at a limit that's best for you and that sort of thing.

The last conversation I had about what I do for work was a friend of a friend of a friend calling me on my cell phone at midnight, totally drunk, asking what I played on Party and telling me that he thought they had cursed his account, and wanting advice. The best thing you could tell most of these people is that they probably shouldn't be playing in the first place, but instead it was easier to just say stick in there, etc.

Thanks for the response.

[astroglide]

I really don't enjoy playing this game anymore.

lol /images/graemlins/smile.gif i felt the same about 6*3/6 too. totally stable win rate, but i don't care about it. i probably should have started with 4*15/30 just to have another 2-4 tables of it at once to look forward to in terms of amperage. oh well. i don't think it matters that much because it is 'actual poker' to me, not 'show the loose passive table the best hand'. it's not so much about the money.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think it matters that much because it is 'actual poker' to me, not 'show the loose passive table the best hand'. it's not so much about the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found that making $285/hr makes it much easier for it to be about poker and the game and to not be about the money.

[astroglide]

I've found that making $285/hr makes it much easier for it to be about poker and the game and to not be about the money.

ok, ok. that's only over like 6,000 hands though, so who knows what my ACTUAL win rate will be? anyway i don't mean to say it doesn't matter - it does. it's just that showdown poker, especially multi-table, is more like a lab rat test pressing buttons than an actually engaging game.

my mid-term goal with all of this is to build a franchise of something like a papa john's (already researching the angles with some valuable contacts) and get back to where i don't "need" to play anymore. i make a respectable salary and i have a successful side consulting job as well, but i feel like i'm cutting my own throat if i don't play at least 15 hours per week. if i can do very well with this for a sustained period of time while we're still in this golden age of online poker (tons of fish, easy ability to buy in and cash out, no legal barriers) i'd like to use it to fund some other venture and get back to playing for fun.

[Losing all]

Not a bad plan. I think I'll open a Hooters.

[morgant]

i agree with writing up money made etc.......it is just plain old classless behavior in the house i was brought up in. i do not look down upon the person engaging in such activities or feel they are lieing(sometimes *snicker*) but it is something i would not partake in....okay done, go about your business

[Jim Kuhn]

[jek187]

Mat Sklansky decapitated her.

[Jim Kuhn]

Could she be the poster in this thread? Could she be 'resurrected again'?

[astroglide]

does answering a question make me a scumbag? i think it should be evident that i have a lot to offer on the topic and the author's specific situation.

[morgant]

i wasnt replying directly to you, i just hit reply at the end of your post. it was not aimed at you or anyone in specific. i clearly stated this line of thinking i have is a part of my upbringing, furthermore, i said i hold no feeling towards those who make such posts, i am very ambivalent about what you or anyone else write's about this matter. i tried to state all of the above in my post...i will try a more pc approach next time.....yes i feel you are more than qualified to inform this poster...i don't think scumbag was a word i used, that word means well, a dirty condom. i used classless, which means, acting without class, and that is what i was taught speaking of certain monetary issues is, especially ones salary etc.....


gooday.

[astroglide]

i didn't think you were specifically assaulting me. i outlined above why i think poker win rates and salaries are not equal, and why i think they shouldn't be subject to standard monetary discussion sensitivities.

[morgant]

fair enough, i sometimes skim the posts...
truce??
take it easy

[astroglide]

no truce necessary, no fight, we all have our perspectives. just wanted you to consider mine.

[Ulysses]

I know, I was just giving you sh!t. That's why I don't play more online. Even though it's currently more profitable for me than playing NL live, I much prefer doing that when I have the chance. I just enjoy the NL a lot more. I also could sit in the 5/10 6-max and make money with very little variance, but it just isn't very much fun. I definitely hear you.