Handling Losses When You Played Perfectly (almost perfectly?)

[Warik]

Though this may look like a bad beat story at first glance, whining is not what my post is intended for... so my apologies in advance to those tired of bad beat threads.

I'm hoping to get some insight as to how you guys handle getting destroyed in a hand you played perfectly and ended up giving away lots of your stack.

I'm not even going to describe the hands because it won't change anything, and like I said, this isn't a bad beat story. It's the same as one of those blackjack situations where you hold 8,2, hit yourself to 20 and the dealer 5 card 21s you. Screwed if you hit, screwed if you stand. You play perfectly but you are doomed before the cards are even dealt.

The "I'm going to be a winning player some day" side of me says: "every call he made put money in your pocket... every raise he made put even more. If you play this situation again a thousand times you will be rich" and that's great and all... but the logically minded side of me says: "Dude, you are not going to play this situation a thousand times!! You got rivered and you'll probably never play against this guy again!!! If he put money in your pocket with every call/raise, then why did he walk off with all of yours!!! Who are you trying to kid? YOU'RE DOOMED!!! DOOOOOOMED MUHAHAHAH!"

How do you get past this?

[Mike Gallo]

How do you get past this?

I go for a smoke break. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

"Bad beats" hardly bother me anymore. I have become numb. I do not know whether to consider this good or bad. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[GuyOnTilt]

How do you get past this?

I think in terms of EV. Looking at my win-rate at the end of each month helps too. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

GoT

[fluff]

I guess you have to have faith in EV. On nights when AK top two pair gets beaten by a runner-runner 42o full house, TPTK gets killed by rivered inside straight and such, you just have to know that eventhough in these particular hands you lost money, in the long run you make money off of players like this. True, you probably will never have the same exact hand again, and you may never play this same guy again, but that doesn't matter. You don't keep score against just this one guy for just this one hand. You keep score for all of these type of guys and for all these types of hands, and as long as these type of guys make these type of plays (-EV ones), you can't help but make money off them.

As long as you make +EV plays and these guys make -EV plays you are like the house and they are the casino patrons. And the house always wins. (Provided no cheating, and sufficient BR).

Once you really *know* this in your heart of hearts, bad beats do not upset you. In fact they should amuse you.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
It's the same as one of those blackjack situations where you hold 8,2, hit yourself to 20 and the dealer 5 card 21s you.

[/ QUOTE ]

im guessing that in this situation, you shouldve doubled down and only taken one card. in this case, the idea isnt to make '21', it's to get money in the pot when the dealer is most likely to bust regardless of your hands actual value at the time. if you hit a high hand, 19+, it's an extra hedge for your bet should the dealer not bust.

how does that apply? if played right, you're making money during the hand EVEN though you lose the pot. longrunwise, it will pay off. if the opponents never won, they'd never play. they'd be broke. sorry about the cliche, but it's true.

watch how some of these players play when they are missing their hands and how much they buy in and blow. it doesnt even have to be this 'particular' player, but this 'type' of player.

no one said winning was easy. it's much more than just playing great cards and playing them well. it's about handling these types of sessions/runs. which is why i like to mention to the ones who are on a great run and winning that the real test is when the cards turn.

this is a big corner that many, many players never get around. or they get around it only to fall back behind it later on. (usually after another great run and they forget how tough it was the last time they went through it)

anyway, study the game more and hang in there.

the cards will turn.

eventually

b

[lostinthought]

I think this is an aspect of poker that is even easier handling if you're an online player. First of all, because you can see more hands in the same amount of time - you see the long run a little faster (in terms of hands). Second, there are great database programs like pokertracker and statking where you can keep accurate records of your results.

When I was still pretty green(new) playing online (I still am relative to some of the posters here), bad beats esp. at higher limits that I wasn't used to easily put me on tilt. Now that I have more than a years worth of playing behind me, with records and results, the bad beats seem to blur a little more. I think 500-600 hours in a pokertracker database will begin to give you an idea that certain hands really do hold up over time. You just have to have the perspective. And that perspective is achieved through experience and reflection.

Good luck..

[CrackerZack]

Depends on where this happens...

If it's in my home game, I usually have another drink and think that at least its a 2-4 game instead of a mid-limit game. If its a mid-limit game, I usually just say F-it because I'm happy to be playing in a casino. You do kind of get numb to it. An entire night of it can still get to anyone though, unless they've turn robot.

[Schneids]

Think of the bad players as a collective group, and don't worry about getting anything back from each individual bad player that lays a bad beat on you. It's simply inevitable that they're going to river their gutshot on you once out of every 12 times. It's their groups other 11 out of 12 failed efforts that you should focus on and remind yourself about.

[Warik]

Thanks for the comments guys. This was in a $1/$2 local indian cardoom. I stayed calm because in my experience I always recooped my suckout losses in the next pot I won. Losing the next pot, although it truly did make me crack up... it did upset me because live play and online play are different for me. Online play 3 hours means 450-540 hands. (50-60 hands/hr x 3 tables x 3 hrs) Live 3 hours isn't much, especially at low limit.

I'm happy at least that I don't tilt anymore live (online is a different story /images/graemlins/smile.gif). Once I can learn to accept that "it happens" and that I will be OK in the long run if I all of my decisions are +EV, then I think I will be in very good shape.

Thanks again

[nykenny]

how to ease the pain of getting sucked out badly?

1) make a note on this person and hope he shows up in your game again.
2) play many tables at the same time so u only have about 3 secs to think about this hand after it's over.
3) accept that this is the one of the many (few) 1:1000-shot-suck-outs you HAVE TO experience (mathematically) in your poker life-time. no matter how unlikely it is going to happen again the same way.
4) look at my records for last week and sympothize me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kenny

[MaxPower]

To paraphrase Santino Corleone, this is business and you are taking it way too personally.

Don't worry about winning you money back from that particular guy. When he gets up, someone else will sit down whose money is just as good.

But remember, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[BigEndian]

Sometimes I'll get up from the table and take a bathroom break. Generally it doesn't bother me as I get in a rythym at the table and losses/wins just happen - especially at a live table because I really enjoy the experience of sitting across from the people you're outplaying.

The only time I got bent out of shape recently was in a home game that the hands/hr was sooooooo slow. My own sister, who is learning the game at my prodding, cracked my TP/TK by spiking her set of sixes on the river. My irritation was mainly because I wanted to have the biggest stack at the end of the night with family and friends - the stakes we were playing at were trivial.

- Jim

[cjx]

I used to feel like you, but it doesn't bother me so much anymore. I often route for the bad players to suck out on the good ones so that it'll be easier for me to get at that money. Also, when some people get sucked out on they go on tilt so instead of having one bad player and one good I have two bad players ... so, check yourself. Remember this IS GAMBLING and you (like a casino) are in it for the long haul.

I was playing this weekend at Foxwoods and this guy was up almost 2k at the 5-10 table. He was the ultimate calling station. When he wasn't getting lucky catching a river two pair or flush, he was getting lucky calling down people's middle pair or semi bluff. I looked at his stack and then looked at my ~100 dollar loss and thought about how sure I was that this terrible player would be back to give his two or so racks back eventually, probably not to me, but there are a million players like him who all win once in awhile and then donate for a life time.

cjx

[Webster]

I'll tell ya - I still get pretty pissed and I'm a good winning player and make way more then I really think I should. (Trips to Hawaii does not hurt the bank at all and thats playing 2/4).

I have an anger problem and I just step away for a few hands and TRY to not let it get personal.

All the BS about liking it because he is a bad player is FINE when it's the other guy getting the shaft. I lost $75 (2/4) on a 73s and 74o back to back against the same guy today and I tell ya - I was pissed. (I had AKs and AQs)

I know that IN THE LONG RUN it's just the way it is. But when you are having a bad run of cards - YIPES - it hurts!

I truely believe that most people get upset and it's normal. What you MUST do is get upset and then - let it go. Take a break, take deep breaths, clear your mind. - It's the past!

[slavic]

I like to use one of Bernie's lines in this situation. "Well he paid full price to get there." If I have played perfect, or better yet if I have played well and charged the right price, made the right bets and raises and I'm beat then what more can I do? Not a thing, the cards are what they are. This hand is over move on to the next and forget it.

The most dangerous thing you can do is start counting money before they push you the pot, you do not deserve it until the final showdown. To build an emotional attachment to it is just foolish.

[gunboat]

Whenever an opponent mucks to my value bet on the river (or calls and mucks), I say to myself

"another 5 outer (or 3 outer or 1 outer) that didn't get there!"

[bernie]

i doubt if i could take credit for that phrase.

but it seems i've been saying that line alot over the last month. havin' a great run, i am. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

actually, once you get just about every hand cracked possible, multiple times, you develop that 'bad beat skin'.

but it still sucks.

b

[Dylan Wade]

Playing positive EV poker is what makes you money. Winning pots is not important. When you truely realize this, you won't care about suckouts anymore--at all.

[ QUOTE ]

"Dude, you are not going to play this situation a thousand times!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you will. If you play multiple tables, you will get in similar situations hundreds of times a week.

If you don't play multiple tables already, I suggest you try it for awhile. The nice thing about it is that you will play through your hands so much faster. This way you can see the statistical swings fly by in real time. Get a big bankroll, play a small limit and play 4 tables at once for 8 hours. Bet your good hands for value every time! You'll see why playing the correct way each time is far more important than the results of one hand.

Also, don't forget the alternative. I imagine you were betting a strong hand agressively, only to be shown a monster hand. The only alternative to this play is to play your strong hands weakly. You and I both know that your strong hands will almost always hold up, even with all the "fish's luck". If your very strong hands are almost always going to hold up, don't you want to make sure you always have a lot of money in the pot? You'll usually win the pot. Do you want it big or small? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dylan Wade]

Yeah. Lol, that's when I go on tilt too.

My friends/family were sort of expecting me to do well in this friendly NL tourney we had going on, but I got beaten by my little sister (12 years old). I'm still pissed off about it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JKratzer]

The method that makes me keep my cool the best is to ask yourself the following:

If my opponent had turned his cards face up, and gave ME control of his chips, what would I have done? (in my own self-interest, not his) Usually it turns out, I would have put his money in the pot, with his draw/underpair/etc.

How can I stay upset when the fish did his best to give me money, but just got unlucky??

Works for me at least....

[mosch]

I load the hands into pokertracker, and step through them in the replayer. I try to decide if I'd play the hand the same way in the future, or if I'd change something about it. It gets me into the mindset required to keep playing well after getting beat up by trash.

Unfortunately, if you suck me out sufficiently, I do get pissy. Earlier today I turned into Mr. Arsehole after being sucked out for $500 at NL100 in about ten minutes in five seperate 80/20 situations where i had the 80% side of things at the point that we went all-in.

For the most part though, I don't get upset beyond a sigh or a profanity.

[Webster]

I just can't believe it when you guys lose a 20BB pot and smile because the guy played badly, you just lost a huge hand and it's t he 3rd bad beat in teh last half hour.

Personally - this is the beauty of online poker - you can rant and scream and no one knows it (but you wife).

As soon as I start getting personal against another player - it's time to switch tables!

[turnipmonster]

I didn't really get past "bad beats" until I started playing big bet poker. you quickly realize that the people that will call a pot bet on the turn with a gutshot are your friends, your good friends, friends that will take care of you /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

plus, at NL/PL, a bad beat almost always costs you your entire stack. your ENTIRE STACK. I've been playing some limit lately, and a bad beat usually costs you maybe 5 or 6 BBs, right? who cares?

--turnipmonster

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
I just can't believe it when you guys lose a 20BB pot and smile because the guy played badly, you just lost a huge hand and it's t he 3rd bad beat in teh last half hour.


[/ QUOTE ]

why? it's poker, suckouts happen all the time. sometimes you go on a hot streak and win more than your fair share, and sometimes you lose more than your fair share. I frequently wonder why people that tilt even play poker, it seems like a really frustrating way to spend their time if they get upset about stuff like that.

--turnipmonster

[Franchise (TTT)]

The shorter your sessions, the closer to 50% of your total sessions are going to be losses. Hopefully you'll be playing perfectly in each of those losing sessions, so the novelty of losing and steaming and brooding should wear off relatively quickly. Until you move up in limits...

[Webster]

I guess I've been missing the HOT streaks for a few months!!

I have not had 1 hour since November where I won more then 15 BBs and thats 15,000 hands in 2/4. yea - I've won 4K since then but that includes about 2K in bonus money LOL