Question for Pros and Other Experts

[webiggy]

What do you do to prepare yourself for your play each day? How do you train? Do you commit to reading a certain amount on your subject? Do you start by reviewing your hand histories from PT? Do you read the forums? Do you run sims? What are the things you do to help you play your best?

[webiggy]

What tools besides PT do you use? (AceSpades or other EV calculators?) Do you use them inconjunction with your play or as post-mortem analyzers?

[GoSox]

Well, I'll give it a shot. Before I start playing the only thing I do is assess what "mood" I'm in. If I have a limited amount of time, or am short on patience because of the baby crying, etc.. than I limit myself to lower limits and only two tables at once. If it's early in the morning or my wife's out and I know I have plenty of time then I play higher limits and more tables. Also, any time I take a really bad beat, I quit for the night. Doesn't matter if I only played five minutes. I find that even if you think it doesn't affect your play, it really does. Last week I had A high flush and lost to a straight flush, quit after the next hand. That's the great thing about PT, you can see what led up to your tilting by reviewing the history.

I play mostly SNGs, the day after I go through the hand histories for any game where I finished worse than fourth. Three times a month I go through my PT results and see where I'm winning. If my ROI is best on NL this month and worse on PL or HE then I will focus more on a certain game. I never force myself to play any night, and I try to read a few chapters probably once a week or when I'm traveling on the plane. Curious to hear other opinions.

[lostinthought]

One thing I do is warm up for 15-30 minutes on the lower range of the limits I play. I figure it takes about 15 minutes to get into the groove, and if I make any mistakes they're inconsequential to my bankroll. In the meantime I look for good tables of the limit I actually want to play. This works much better for me than immediately situating myself on the highest limit I play and dropping some bets because I am not focused and then semi-tilting as a result.

I use pokertracker, but previously just for tracking and spotting leaks in my hand selection. This year, I have started to go through my sessions and look for weaknesses that way. I also try to read some (about 15-30 minutes) a day.

[Duke]

Every time I sit down to play I'm a better player, since I learned something the last day. Most of my friends play cards, and I'll talk with them about hands for hours when I'm not playing. I don't "get ready," or study in any real sense. I roll out of bed and jump into 4 games.

The only thing pokertracker is for is to be able to see my actual results, and to see if maybe there's some short term mathematical "impossibility" that is accounting for a bad or a good run.

~D

[bernie]

it's easier to assess what to study your own game 'after' a session. then you can review your hands and possible holes that may have developed. this helps make studying/training much more productive.

along with incorporating other concepts that may have presented themselves during the session or that peak your interest that you want to try. such as stuff you read in magazines or on here.

b

btw...reading and posting on here will really help sharpen/test your ideas/game. these are the hands played in-between folding.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
What are the things you do to help you play your best?

[/ QUOTE ]
before live games, i make sure i go to the bathroom first /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. before online games, i usually grab a bottle of water and sit down...

[webiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing I do is warm up for 15-30 minutes on the lower range of the limits I play. I figure it takes about 15 minutes to get into the groove, and if I make any mistakes they're inconsequential to my bankroll. In the meantime I look for good tables of the limit I actually want to play. This works much better for me than immediately situating myself on the highest limit I play and dropping some bets because I am not focused and then semi-tilting as a result.

I use pokertracker, but previously just for tracking and spotting leaks in my hand selection. This year, I have started to go through my sessions and look for weaknesses that way. I also try to read some (about 15-30 minutes) a day.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is good stuff. Let me ask you, what are you looking for in your games? High % of players seeing the flop - hopefully LP types of games? Do you find yourself wishing Party could get those stats for you?

re: PT - I use a similar approach. I like to go through the session and review all of the hands where I took a beating to find the leaks. Then I look at winning hands and hope to find places where I miss bets. I also try to take notes on each player to the extent that it's efficient and meaningful.

The reason for asking this is that my wife and I just sold our home in CA and we're moving to WA where our new house payment is less than half our old one. We're in a good cash position and I am taking a sabbatical from my career and am going to give playing poker for a living a try. I have about $10k in bank roll that is strictly risk capital to dedicate to the venture.

The approach that I thought I would take is to study (not read) a chapter of poker text every morning. Then review my play from the previous day (this means playing at sites that allow for easy import into PT). Play a few hours online. Break and read the forums and post some hands. I also want to be sure to set time aside for multi's and I am also hoping to play more in B&M ring and tournament games. I have also been contemplating hiring a coach like Ciaffone for some additional feedback, although I'm wondering if just spending time at the zoo will suffice.

DavidRoss - I hope you see this. I'd like to get your valued input as well.

[lostinthought]

Good, I am glad whatever I said was of some use/help.

As far as game selection goes, it depends on the site. Sites that have percentages seeing flops are very helpful - I like tables that have 45% and up.. In fact, I would even situtuate myself at a table, even if it were at lower stakes than I want to play at, if it were the right table. Ex - I would easily take a great 2/4 table (right now with my bankroll) with 50% seeing flops over a 5/10 table (what I am currently working on beating) that is seeing 30%-35%... Of course I play multiple tables, so the varying limits kind of average out. This is also because I have been at specific sites clearing bonuses and some sites have more limited selection in a specific limit. I am also just a serious recreational player with a full time job, so I don't have to make X amount of money by Y amount of time. (I still have my goals though)
With a site like partypoker that only has avg. pot size I look for tables that have avg. pot sizes of at least 8 to 10 times the BB. That's not a guarantee though - it could be the result of a couple maniacs or even tight aggr. players.. I can usually get a feel for the texture of a table within a couple orbits (and the textures can change quickly at low limits where people move around sporadically). Yes, you want to look for passive callers.
Yeah, I pretty much do the same with pokertracker. What a great program. Usually I can go back and find my mistakes, but I kind of gloss over some of the questionable stuff. My new goal is to try to always post the questionable stuff. It's difficult for me though, because I can read messages and post at 2+2 when I am at work (I have a full time office job), but I don't have access to pokertracker at work. Most of my poker time at home right now is actually spent playing, so reviewing my own and posting actual hands is the part that I am lacking most right now. I guess you can't always get to everything. (I try to do other things besides working and playing poker, although those seem to take alot of time up)
Your plan sounds really good. Please keep us updated. Of course by 'read' I meant 'study' . I was a philosophy undergrad so I know how to mull over a paragraph of text.
How many hours have you played? What limits are you playing right now?
I think you might not need a coach immediately - there are plenty of written materials to comb through, and of course, the forums here. I think if you've been playing pro for about a year, a lesson might really help. (e.g. davidross)

I am definitely commited to the idea that there is no one way to go about learning this stuff... different things work for different people. I didn't realize it at the time, but I played pretty bad poker for about 4-5 months. And then I started reading good poker books, and reading the forums here. And I started putting in consistent hours. And it seems that I have started winning. Most of what works I have just stumbled upon by trying alot of different things. Ultimately, I think everybody has to find out what works for them (concerning things like mental preparation, game selection strategy). I hope I have given you some ideas.

Best wishes

[webiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
Your plan sounds really good. Please keep us updated. Of course by 'read' I meant 'study' . I was a philosophy undergrad so I know how to mull over a paragraph of text.
How many hours have you played? What limits are you playing right now?
I think you might not need a coach immediately - there are plenty of written materials to comb through, and of course, the forums here. I think if you've been playing pro for about a year, a lesson might really help. (e.g. davidross)

[/ QUOTE ]
In the move process and currently working on someone else's computer but I know I've logged about nearly 10k hands in PT and got that about 3 months into my regular, but not ft playing. Because of bank roll limitations, i have only been playing .5/1 to 2/4 and find those games beatable provided that I stay focused and play smartly. I always find that I play badly when distracted and not feeling great.

[ QUOTE ]
I am definitely commited to the idea that there is no one way to go about learning this stuff... different things work for different people..,

And then I started reading good poker books, and reading the forums here. And I started putting in consistent hours. And it seems that I have started winning. Most of what works I have just stumbled upon by trying alot of different things. Ultimately, I think everybody has to find out what works for them (concerning things like mental preparation, game selection strategy). I hope I have given you some ideas.




[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, totally. I believe that with all of the various aspect to the game, it's important to find a good mix of all of its components. For example, one of the things I want to do is to create a spreadsheet aimed at studying implied odds to help me to optimize my play in questionable situations. Also on my realding list (meaning I haven't bought it yet) is Psychology of Poker. The 2+2 books are great for their content. One of the things I'm working on now is transposing their study questions into a seperate study guide to help me focus and hone in on the important concepts of the text.

I really love to play and I find myself really spending a ton of time reading and studying and making really stupid posts. I can hardly tear myself away from the forums, but that's because I'm a narcissist (sp?) and love to see how people respond to my posts.

Thanks for your support.

Iggy

[lostinthought]

one other thing -
if you are adding to your poker book library, you may want to check out www.overstock.com.. (http://www.overstock.com..) I purchased most of my 2+2 books from there, and it saved a lot of money.

good luck

[MS Sunshine]

First thing I do in the morning is update my notes on every new player that I played with the day before in PT then move them to Party's note function.

I never read 2+2 until the note grunt work is completely done.

I also plan what multi's I will be playing for the day. I check how the games are in the different sections I play looking for the softest place to start playing.

I never reread poker books unless I'm in a bad losing streak.

MS Sunshine

[deacsoft]

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. Mainly just wanted to say great question and great feedback. I've learned quite a few things from this thread. Thanks all.

[soda]

Having read the thread, I feel ready to give a response that may be of some use to you.

I was at first, hesitant to give a reply, because what I do to prepare myself is drastically different than what you should be doing.

Anyone who is serious about playing poker for a living, should read all the main literature on their game. If your game is limit hold'em then this includes, but is not limited to:

Super System - Bobby Baldwin's Limit section
Sklansky's original Hold'em book
HPFAP - Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players
Theory of Poker
Poker Essays 1,2, and 3 (a personal favorite)
Caro's book of tells (mostly for live play, but not all)
Middle Limit Hold'em
Championship Hold'em
Lee Jones, Winning Low Limit Hold'em - great for starters in smaller games
Inside the Poker Mind by John Feeney
Hold'em Excellence and More Hold'em Excellence by Lou Krieger

I also recommend reading the articles on Poker Pages and Card Player Magazine.

For the first two years of my career, I read everything I could get my hands on. And even books that I didn't consider all that great (there are a few listed above) gave me ideas that I use and gave me insight into how others perceive the game. Use the literature that is available, don't neglect this basic aspect of learning the game.

I remember reading the books over and over until I understood them well enough. Then, I used them for reference, in particular HPFAP, and the concepts in Mason's essays.

I am always thinking about the game. I'm to the point now that I ask myself what the correct play is and try to do that. Should I fold, raise or call. Early on, I often did what I thought might be correct, but if I wanted to call, I too often called. Or, if I was afraid to raise, I too often called. Now, when a board looks scary and I'm playing well I ask myself should I bet here? I think through the hand and, even if I'm scared, I make that bet if I believe it to be the right play. Of course, I don't always do it, but I recognize my own fears and how they influence my play much more often these days.

Poker Tracker is an excellent tool. Use it how you see fit. Right now I'm into examining specific hands. For instance, I'm terrible with A7s - so I'm working on that. I was a loser with QJo for over 20,000 hands, but I saw this leak in my game by using Poker Tracker and have turned that hand into a pretty good winner.

If I still have your attention, then listen closely. Get yourself a mentor. Someone who is proven, someone who is very good at poker, who will tell you exactly what you did wrong and why. It would be great if this person were local - go to your local casino (if available) and make friends. Find someone, or several people who's play you respect and talk over your hands with them. Do not complain about badbeats, this gets old too quick and people will begin to avoid you. Instead ask them how they would play a challenging or interesting hand.

Finally, use this forum. If it is not immediately clear through talking with your friends about hands what the correct play is, then post it here. Remember to give as much information as possible without watering the post down too much.

Heh, coming from me, that last sentence seems pretty humorous.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

soda

[AZK]

There is no efficient way to keep track of the notes on players other than to write them up in PT and then cut and paste them once your on party? Don't you have to go finding all the players you played against? How exactly do you keep your notes up to date on players? Thanks.

[Nottom]

You do realize you can export notes from Pokertracker right?

[webiggy]

Thanks for the tip Nottom,

I wasn't aware of that, but that brings up an interesting point. How many of you surf PT's community for tips and hints. I'm sure this function is discussed there, no?

[webiggy]

Soda, great post - thanks.

Mid limit is actually at the top of my "must get for my library" list. HEPFAP is the most dog eared to date, have virtually memorized Jones' book - it was first and my first attempt to create a hand chart. Have perused TOP and have referrenced it here in an ill advised debate with Major Kong, and am using the "did I play this right?" threads for honest analysis of other players hands, which I find tremendously valuable in helping me think objectively about the game.

I had the same idea about the local players. I thought OI might even be so bold as to ask the poker room hosts to point me out the best players so that I can chat them up. Honestly, I think that many of the posters here are some of the most intelligent players out there. LL B&M players, I'm discovering, are truely horrible players, by and large.

Curious bout the Krieger book. I seem to remember, although I could be wrong, there being some debate as to how valuable it is. Having said that, I think that most books on the subject have some value. In fact, even though his book is a piece of [censored], I think even Hullmuth's book has some interesting content regarding the value of aggressive play. Not that I like the book, mind you, but I think to carry your point Soda, that elements from each book on the topic can be incorporated into ones play. Particularly as a means to mix up your play to keep opponents off balance.

Thanks again all for your content. BTW, does anybody have any thoughts re: poker money allocation. I have a thread in the newbie section re: this.

Cheers,

Iggy

[webiggy]

[ QUOTE ]
First thing I do in the morning is update my notes on every new player that I played with the day before in PT then move them to Party's note function.

I never read 2+2 until the note grunt work is completely done.

I also plan what multi's I will be playing for the day. I check how the games are in the different sections I play looking for the softest place to start playing.

I never reread poker books unless I'm in a bad losing streak.

MS Sunshine

[/ QUOTE ]

MSS,

Thanks for coming in. I really respect your play and have seen you in action in mutli's - I'm TheBigIguana on Party. I always seem to see you doing well in Tourney play and I'm wondering to what you attribute to winning tourney play. I have Tournament Poker for Advanced Players and understand the Gap Concept. But there must be more. Thoughts,

Iggy

[jasonHoldEm]

Ok, here's my $0.02....although I'm hardly an expert.

What do you do to prepare yourself for your play each day?

At least 8 hours of sleep.

How do you train? Do you commit to reading a certain amount on your subject? Do you start by reviewing your hand histories from PT? Do you read the forums? Do you run sims?

Yes, sometimes. Sometimes I just play.

What are the things you do to help you play your best?

At least 8 hours of sleep. Sleeping is 0 EV, playing when tired is -EV...don't play when you're tired...sleep.

What tools besides PT do you use? (AceSpades or other EV calculators?) Do you use them inconjunction with your play or as post-mortem analyzers?

I use PT and Illunious's note program to export notes that I use when playing, I use PT and twodimes for post mortem.

Let me ask you, what are you looking for in your games?High % of players seeing the flop

I'm looking for mistakes that I can exploit. Watching half an orbit will tell you more about the game and the players than all the stats in the world. I ignore table stats because they are often misleading.

The approach that I thought I would take is to study (not read) a chapter of poker text every morning. Then review my play from the previous day (this means playing at sites that allow for easy import into PT). Play a few hours online. Break and read the forums and post some hands. I also want to be sure to set time aside for multi's and I am also hoping to play more in B&M ring and tournament games.

To each their own...don't be afraid to mix it up occasionally. I'm not a big fan of a rigid schedule...I schedule hours, but not what I'll be doing during those hours. I hope that makes sense.

I have also been contemplating hiring a coach like Ciaffone for some additional feedback, although I'm wondering if just spending time at the zoo will suffice.

I have a coach and am considering hiring another one. Coaches are a winning investment...I've made back my initial investment several times over already, by having him see a few leaks I wasn't aware of (i.e. stuff I wouldn't have posted about on 2+2).

In the end, what I've learned about being a pro is that you have to put in the hours if you want to be successful. At some point it goes from being a hobby to being a job. This does take a little of the fun out of the game, but it also makes it more interesting and exciting in other ways.

Good luck,
jHE

[n1stunnor]

I always start the day with a 20-30 min. run or weightraining.You'd be surprised how much even a light run in the morning helps your focus later in the day.Then I brew some java,check emails,read the forum and i'm all set to play.