Long streak of 4th finishes...

[MasterShakes]

I'm playing $10+$1 NL SNG's on Party. I've had what seems like the longest streak of 4th place finishes where it just grinds down unbearably at the end and I can't catch a hand. I guess I just want reassurance that this happens to everybody. I had been doing pretty well on my first dozen or so with a pretty big return, but now it's diminishing pretty quickly. I'm still ahead, but these 4th place finishes are killing me.

[Tosh]

Sounds like you need to steal more when you get down to the last 4 or 5.

[MasterShakes]

I actually have been doing my share of stealing. This last tournament went from level 5 to late in level 8 with 4 players left when I busted out. I stole something like 5 times in that span, one time getting caught, when I assume they noticed what I was up to. I just can't seem to get into the money. My stack size hasn't been that good going to the bubble either, so it's not like I have much to steal with.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Losing streaks are very common but a run of 4th place finishes might suggest that you need to review your 'bubble play' as its the worst position you can achieve.

I'd suggest reviewing how you went out in each case. If you were short-stacked and blinded out there's little you can do but if the losses are from other positions then you are potentially taking unnecessary chances when survival is the key objective.

Best thing to do is post the hands on here for review if you are unsure.

I got pretty annoyed earlier today after 2 4th places in a row. For that particular position, that was an unacceptably long streak as far as I'm concerned! Thankfully I put an end to it with a much more satisfying 9th place /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tosh]

5 steals in 3 levels with only 4 players is very low.

[MasterShakes]

The problem I have with stealing more than I do is that unless I'm pushing all the way in, it just looks like a steal. If I min raise on a short stack, it looks like a steal. If I push in, they want me out, so they call. I just don't want to throw the tournament away on a steal when a pocket pair could come along at any hand. I know it's non-aggressive thinking, but I just don't see the reason for pushing in on something like J6s when they're just going to call anyway.

[kenski]

I have followed the advice of some of the guys here on being more agressive late and it has helped. It is very hard when you have player right behind you with chips and apropensity to call raises.

I also know what you mean becuase lots of times, when a player is short stacked and the blinds are big anyway, if the BB has chips, he will call one more BB. If you have T400 and the blinds are 200, going all is only a 2x raise, and the BB is already in it for half of that. He only needs to have a 26% chance of winning the hand to make it worth while because the extra 200 he has to call is only 25% of the pot if you were the SB.

I try to watch carefully who is less likely to call raises. I also pay attention to who I am stealing from. A middle sized stack seems the easiest. They are not desperate and at the same time they just trying to hold on themselves. Theyd' many times rather wait out a smaller stack then rumble with you. The smallest stacks are deperate, so they might call and a big stack is likely to just to get a chance to knock you out.

That being said, in most situations:
*if I am short stacked, I try to wait as long as I can for cards and I am all in or folding. Many times you will get a call with inferior cards and if I win a hand I want to be back in the game.
* If I am middle stacked I am agressive towards the other middle stacks with great and with junk hands. If I am re-raised with junk, I can toss it. If I am re-raised with great hands then I am all in. What I dont want is a decision to make if they re-raise. Hands like A10, AJ put you in that spot. It's amazing how many times I have taken down pots with hands like 42o.
* I am agressive towards the small stacks also, but I am agressive with any hand that I think could beat the average, unseen hand (not with junk). When I am agressive towards small stacks, I make the all in bet for them.

If I am agressive towards the big stack, I rarely go all in, but I will be at least 3x the blinds. I dont want to go all in, becuase I dont want him to call me just for the sake of possibly knocking someone out (unless of course I have AA and then I do go all in for that same reason). I do want to make it at least 3x raise because a 2x raise to a big stack almsot tells them you dont have a great hand and that they can take you down if you flop nothing (which happens >50% of the time) or an overcard with low PP.

I sure that the better players here can pick this apart (and I welcome this), but effectively what I am saying here is that being agressive with 4-5 left in a SnG is something I have worked on based on the advice given on this board and it seems to have worked out pretty well so far. I am actually in the money MORE, and when I am in the money I am limping into it less and therefore have more wins too.

[maplepig]

it happens to everyone. I keep track of my premium hand (AA, KK) win rate and preflop allin hand win rate on bubble. If they don't win enough percentage, it's bad luck. If I don't like something, I just keep a record of it, like right now KK hole flop Ace. Over my last 20 KK, 12 times Ace flopped. I know it won't continue in long run, but it's interesting to see how things are going and in the mean time blame the site for being rigged.

[CrisBrown]

Hi Shakes,

I know the feeling. I've played seven SNGs today, made five final tables, where top four pay: 5th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 7th. Just keep playing your best game, and sooner or later the cards have to fall your direction.

Cris

[CrisBrown]

Hi All,

And the cards finally did fall my way, in the last SNG of the night. It wasn't a big win, but it felt good to get a positive outcome after being soooooo close all day. Those days will happen, and all things considered it wasn't too brutal (down $460). Just three or four coin flip or better hands were the difference between -$460 and +$1000 or maybe more. I felt like I played well, and I'll take my bubble losses on hands like QQ, AK, and AQs. *shrugs*

Cris

[MasterShakes]

Thanks for the advice all... I started stealing a little more with a bigger, more aggressive raise, and I've managed to finish 2nd and 3rd in the last two. The 2nd could have easily been a 1st, but it's still good to get off the snide...