getting killed head to head

[coolhandluke]

Guys, I need help, I'm pretty knew to all this, and need some pointers.

I'm having decent success getting to the final 2-3 on 1 table tournaments, however, once we get in head to head, I'm consistently getting hammered (all 3 of the last tournaments) The first two, I came in as a major chip underdog, so I wasn't surprised, but last night really changed my opinion. I busted out the 3rd player with pocket kings, to take a 4700 to 3300 chip lead into the head to head. I then proceeded to choke, die, and come in second place. What are the basics of the final head to head play?

[NotMitch]

Given the stack sizes you mention Im guessing you play on Party. Heads up there can be more of a crap shoot because the blinds are so large relative to stack size. Without seeing specific hands my stock advice is be more agressive.

One of the odd things about the average player in a SnG is that they tend to be far too loose early and far too tight heads up. Like CrisBrown has said (and this is the very short version) you want to win the pots where you have a hand and the ones nobody does. Hope this helps.

[unfrgvn]

I agree with NotMitch, reading Cris's advice helped me with my heads up play. Don't be afraid to min raise with that 83o out of the small blind, you won't beleive how many times you'll get a fold from the BB. If they do call then you can often bet the flop and make them go away, and who knows you might flop a hand. If they show a lot of interest in the pot then don't be afraid to let it go and look for a better spot. Raise with every Ax. Gotta be agressive.
The player that gives me problems is the one who slids all in every hand pre flop. At some point you gotta make a stand but they seem to have knack for out flopping me.
Also, don't be afraid to get lots of big pocket pairs heads up, this will help more than anything. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hope this helps.

[Utah]

Looks like you play at Party, which makes things a crap shoot often heads up.

If you dont know how to play heads up and your opponent does then you are probably a 5-1 dog. I play Poker Stars, which gives you a lot more room to play. I will often get heads up short stacked and quickly know that I am still a huge favorite because of the way an opponent plays.

My best suggestion is to play a few heads up matches and to observe some higher stacks heads up play. The problem is that heads up is really a different game than the one played to get HU. This makes it very uncomfortable to play for many players. Get some experience and it becomes easier.

Lack of aggressiveness is the biggest heads up mistake. YOU CANNOT WAIT FOR GOOD CARDS. Too many players play like this: wait for good cards and then get very aggressive. This strategy is an absolute loser. By the time you get those cards a good HU player will have already extracted a ton of chips.

I used to play almost exclusively heads up. Here are the most common mistakes I see in my opponents:
1) Folding too often from the button - its a half bet and you have position. There are not too many worth folding here. If your opponent is passive then there are no hands worth folding here
2) Limping from the button. You have position and the chances are that your opponent has nothing. Put pressure on. From the button I will 3x raise about 80% of the time.
3) Failure to come come back over the top. Observant players will realize that an aggressive player is stealing a lot from the button, so they think they are being smart by calling more hands. This is a tragic mistake. The reason is that if you call 50% in the BB, the opponent wins the blinds 50% of the time and probably close to 50% of the hands that are called. YOU NEED TO COME BACK OVER THE TOP OF THE BUTTON RAISES
4) Bad Bluffs - often an opponent will get sick of an aggressive player stealing and they will simply shove all there chips in. Now, there are times you might push all your chips in. However, you can accomplish the same thing while risking a lot less chips. For example, if you each have 6,000 chips and you are going to bluff the aggressive player with no hand, you should maybe push in 2,000 chips. If the aggressive player hands has no hand he will fold, if he happens to have a good hand he will call or go in. Now, with only a 2,000 bet, you can still get away from the hand and survive.
5) Failure to use the check raise. Often, a weak HU player will bet out his weak hands and check fold his bad hands. This strategy allows the aggressive player on the button to steal a ton of post flop hands. Check raise him a few times and he will not be so apt to steal.

My two sense. Good luck

[Utah]

don't be afraid to get lots of big pocket pairs heads up, this will help more than anything

Best heads up advice I have ever heard.

[CrisBrown]

Hiya coolhandluke,

The essence of my heads-up strategy is simple. I want to win every pot where I have or catch anything, and every pot where neither of us has or catches anything. That leaves my opponent with only those pots where he has or catches something, and I don't. That's not many.

It doesn't always work out that way, of course. But that's what I'm aiming for. I want to see almost every flop, and I plan to bet most of them. The worst mistake you can make in NL heads-up is to be too passive; you'll get ground down and run over.

Obviously, you have to know when to back off a pot. But the bottom line is, heads-up play rewards aggression.

Cris

[cferejohn]

If the stacks are large relative to the blinds (i.e. the total chips in play is 20x the BB or less), you could probably do worse than to just push in every hand you have the opportunity to (although fold garbage if your opponent open raises). You'll get caught sometimes, but heads up with big blinds I think this "idiot's strategy" is difficult to counter. Often you will find yourself having a big chip advantage before your opponent knows what happened.

[LetsRock]

Being a fairly passive player by nature, short handed play has always been tough for me. I am getting better though.

Things I have done to improve:

-If I'm first to open a pot, I come in with a big raise or fold. Limping into a shorthanded pot is a recipe for disaster. One exception my be to limp with Aa or KK but even this needs to be done with care.

-Forget low suited connectors (if you play them at all). I used to have a tendency to like them more in a short game then a full game, but that is so wrong. Hands like A4, K6 are mcuh better shorthanded then hands like 78s. Ax, Kx and Qx are usually great steal hands. You usually don't want to risk your whole stack with them, but sizable raises are usually advisable when opening pots or defending blinds with them.

-Watch your opponents. If you're up against a passive player, you can steal pots from them at will with small raises - but beware if they raise or bet strong - they have a real hand. If your up against a very aggressive player, defend your blinds with lesser hands (don't get carried away with the "lesser" part). Aggressive players will put constant pressure on you and it can become a very frustrating guessing game. That's why you want to be the aggressor. If you have a decent chip lead, it may be best to act passive until you get a monster hand and come back swinging. BUt you can't always wait forever and need to counter punch occasionally even if you don't have a great hand. If you're playing against a calling station forget the bluffing, but bet your big hands very heavily.

-Heads up can come down to timing and luck. Since I've improved my HU game, I've had several encounters with other players who are at my level. These HU matches have lasted 30-45 mins with the chip lead bouncing back and forth. We take turns stealing each other's blinds and occasionally mix it up a little. I've come back from the felt to win and have lost to an opponent who has done the same (had one guy suck out on me 4 straight pots to get back into it). In these cases, it's all about the timing of the big hands where one gets JJ vs. QQ or AK gets sucked out by AJ or something equally frustrating. Vs. an equal opponent or someone who's running hot, it can just come down to luck.

-Don't be afraid to get busted. You're already in the money (if you're playing a tourney and you're down to heads up) so have fun and play. Don't be silly, but try a few stone cold bluffs and throw your chips around when you have anything that beats the board (of course a little discretion is advised). You have to go for it when you have something.

HU and shorthanded takes lot's of practice. I'd suggest you find some real cheap HU tables or tourneys and put some time in. Better yet, if you have a friend that plays well, get together and have a series of HU tourney's. Both of you put in $5 (or whatever is cheap enough to not worry about, but expensive enough to take seriously), take $500 (or $50 or whatever) worth of chips and go at it a bunch of times. This can be a lot of fun and it WILL improve you shorthanded play. We've been doing this for years as a substitute when we don't have enough guys for a full game.

[t_perkin]

play against sparbot.

[DonWaade]

sorry, new to the game. . . what is Sparbot? Thanks in advance

[PDX_David]

Here are the two things that I feel are very important if you want to get better at heads up play.

1. Find a site that offers heads up play (Stars and ?) and play. It will help you tremendously. I don't think playing heads up only when you make it there at a 1 and 2 table tourney is enough. Well, it wasn't for me anyways. The experience I have gained playing the H2H on Stars has helped me at the end of those 1 and 2 table tourneys. Plus, you can make a decent profit by playing the 4 player H2H matches.

2. When you get down to heads up play you have to play the person more than the cards. If you know they will fold to a bet, than bet. If you know they will fold to 2 bets, 2 bet. If they will only bet when they have something, take control. If they are insanely aggressive after the flop, let them trap themselves. Sometimes early in a h2h match I like to call down (if it is fairly cheap) to see what they are betting/raising/calling with, even if I don't think I have the best of it. Just find out what kind of player you are up against. I don't think there is an A B C formula when you get heads up.

Thats just the way I play, I still have a day job...

PDX

[HajiShirazu]

If this is party, I usually just go all in with any Ax, Kx, or pocket pair, and I will call an all in with any Ax or pair fives or better unless I know the guy is really tight. If the guy folds too much, I will go all in with all but my worst hands, unless the blinds are small enough that I can play actual poker. If I choose to see the flop, I will C/R all in with any pair (on most boards) unless I know I am up against someone not likely to bluff, and if I flop big, I usually try to trap unless free cards are a major danger. There's really no skill in these when the blinds are 10% of your stack and one raise postflop puts you all in, and just about the only big mistake you can be making is to fold too much. Maybe this is a poor strategy but I usually get more wins than seconds at the end. Then again, I usually get more fourths than thirds. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[t_perkin]

http://games.cs.ualberta.ca/webgames/poker/

[t_perkin]

[ QUOTE ]

If they are insanely aggressive after the flop, let them trap themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]

The problem being if you are HU at the end of a Party SnG then the blinds will be so high most of the time that you probably don't have time to wait for a trap.

This is why playing a very aggressive strategy is recommended by so many people. It is very hard to counter in a short space of time.

I think if you come up against an ultra aggressive player then you just have to accept that it is a crap shoot and move in right alongside and hope.

Obviously if you have a much larger stack then trapping a super aggressive player can work - although often it is still not the best strategy.


Tim

[DrPhysic]

coolhandluke,

I recently asked for help on heads up play same as you. I received a suggestion that works!

I don't know what is available on party, but on Poker Stars you can enter 2 person HU SNG's, 4 player Match HU Holdem, at $5.50, $11, $33 (and up)levels, and on saturday afternoon (us time) there is a 256 player HU tournament. I have played at least one HU SNG every day for about a month. My HU play is a LOT better. I highly recommend it.

Just passing on good 2+2 advice previously given me.

Doc

[Peter Harris]

i'm the reverse; i kill at heads up and have trouble getting there.

When heads up, i raise with:
any pocket pair,
any Ace and any suited K,
any two cards 9 and above,
any suited connectors and 1-gappers (i.e. T8s) down to 54s.

i think this is suggested for shorthanded play in HPFAP, but i find it helps as a framework for SNG's.

I call raises with similar hands, check if BB with a weaker hand than the list, raise if in the list.

Remember, when heads up, any pair, even on the board, is quite strong. I know lots of people who get the fear and fold raise after raise heads up till their stack is decimated. You must be the aggressor.

All the best,
Peter Harris