Received this PM...

[Gamblor]

from a poster calling himself "URAJewMonkey"

Can you dispute the fact that the jews killed Christ?
Just Wondering?

Perhaps its my avatar, or maybe it has something to do with the "Other Topics" forum, but for some reason, I don't get the joke. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

At least, I hope it's a joke.

[elwoodblues]

Aah, the famous Jew Monkeys --- if they were kidding they aren't very funny. Some people are so stupid it's scary.

...the cartoon bubble in my head is showing a zoo with the a display of religious monkeys: The What Would Jesus Do? Monkey wearing a cheap bracelet with WWJD all over it, a Pope Monkey wearing the miter (pope's hat), and a Jew Monkey wearing a skullcap.

[nicky g]

That is absolutely sickening and not remotely funny. My commiserations. I don't know what else to say except that the internet is full of cowards and arseholes. I assume Matt will ban the username immediately, although I suppose it was a one-off. I am truly sorry.

[andyfox]

How sad.

Now I'm happier than ever that I don't accept PMs.

[Gamblor]

I have come to the following realization:

I felt no need to respond to this obvious provocation.

In a way, I suppose that it simply speaks volumes of the attitude I have toward posters who I fundamentally disagree with on a range of issues, especially nicky g and andyfox.

Of course, my responses to Cyrus and Alger are more intended to show everyone else their blatant errors (and in some cases, outright lies), but the fact that I even try to convince you of what I perceive to be logical mistakes and factual errors in arguments concerning Israel and the Territories, implies I have a level of respect for your Point o' View - as I would hope you have for mine (I ain't holdin my breath though /images/graemlins/crazy.gif).

No worries, difference of opinion is what makes these forums a good time to begin with. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[adios]

I for one have learned much from your posts. Your depth of knowledge is truly remarkable.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Gamblor,
I am greatly angered by the PM you recceived. Online many people are cowards. This isn't funny on any level. If this happened in the "real" world, I would glady hold down the person who said this to you, so you could beat the [censored] out of them.
This is definitely about respect, while I may disagree with certain things you say, and also some of the things others say, I respect that you atleast have an opinion and you aren't afraid to say it. There is room for good natured [censored] talking on here, I mean this is an area for open debate, however IMO there is no room for outright racism and slander.
I am sorry that someone sent you the PM.
DaCracka

[MMMMMM]

I think the person who PM'ed you chose a very offensive username.

While it is no doubt true that some Jews played a major role in Jesus' death, the person who PM'ed you needs to realize that the evil done by certain persons does not reflect on all members of the larger group, and that it is therefore illogical to hold ill will against other members of that group on such grounds.

[MattHatter]

Obviously this person has some deep seeded issues.

(And more than likely.. a small wanker) /images/graemlins/wink.gif


Maatt

[MMMMMM]

Also, there is another view which may have some validity and is worth considering, and I believe it is the view held by Mel Gibson and many other Christians:

That all of humanity, because of our inherently selfish, imperfect and corrupt nature, contributed to the killing of Jesus Christ. Mel Gibson himself appears in the movie holding one of the nails that is hammered through Jesus' hand. As a columnist pointed out (sorry forget who at the moment), Rembrandt had the same viewpoint, for his painting of Jesus' crucifixion shows Rembrandt as one of the soldiers at the raising of the cross. So the movie is also a commentary that any humans in positions of power (the priests, and Pilate) which felt seriously jeopardized or threatened by Jesus' radical teachings might have done the same thing, due to our imperfect and selfish natures. That flies in the face of my own personal feeling that I could never have done such a thing, but who really knows for sure 'til you are in that situation. As Peter, who deeply loved Jesus, could not believe it when Jesus told him that before the cock would crow, he would deny him thrice, yet Peter, when put to the test, did just that to save his own skin. So: maybe I should even take back the comments I have made about Palestinian suicide bombers being unfit to be human beings, because as much as I cannot see myself ever resorting to such tactics, it may be impossible to know until you have truly walked a lifetime in another's shoes.

At any rate, I think that the Jewish priests and temple hierarchy and mob, which sought Jesus' death, and the equivocations of Pilate, and the cruelty of the Roman soldiers: all is a black mark on human nature itself far more so than a stain specifically on the Jews (or Romans).

Rembrandt's The Raising Of The Cross (http://www.abcgallery.com/R/rembrandt/rembrandt105.html)

[andyfox]

Rembrandt often painted himself into his group pictures.

OT, but there is a very interesting recent book called Rembrandt's Jews about his relatioonship with the Jewish community in Amsterdam. I had the awe-inspiring pleasure of seeing Rembrandt's The Nightwatch in Amsterdam last year, as well as many of his other paintings and etchings. Nobody looked into people's souls quite as deeply as he did. A remarkable artist.

[George Rice]

It is significant that Christ, as a Jew, and as the Jewish Messiah (from the point of view of the Christians), was condemned by the Jews, who had a hand in his death. However, it is far more significant that Christ, as the savior of mankind, was condemned and killed by mankind. That's the whole point. He suffered like man, including being betrayed by those He loved and came to save. The idea is that He will forgive even that. So most everything else compares in comparison, no?

Anyone who blames Jews, Romans or anyone else misses the point. Niether God nor the Son blame anyone. Any man who does so acts on his own initiative and prejudices.

And I say all of this not believing any of it (the dogma). But I do understand the symbolism and the "evil" some men do in the name of their "God".

[southerndog]

[ QUOTE ]
Gamblor,
I am greatly angered by the PM you recceived. Online many people are cowards. This isn't funny on any level. If this happened in the "real" world, I would glady hold down the person who said this to you, so you could beat the [censored] out of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that cowardly too?

[Chris Alger]

The notion that "the Jews" killed Christ (or anyone), or that any Jews "killed" Christ under any defensible reading of scripture is stupidly incorrect and anti-Semitic and smacks of the same tribalist ethics that you so repugnantly find appealing in other contexts.

[Gamblor]

smacks of the same tribalist ethics that you so repugnantly find appealing in other contexts.

At no point have I ever blamed "all" Arabs nor have I claimed that Arabs kill Jews.

I have claimed that the dictators and leaders Arab states manufacture history to the extent that the citizens, who naturally assume the information they have been given is accurate, are left with little option other than to hate Jews.

[Gamblor]

God nor the Son blame anyone.

Is the "Son" a misspelling of Sun (in reference to paganism) or is the Son of God Jesus?

[MMMMMM]

I don't even know if it really matters whether or not Jesus was the Son of God, and here is why:

Whether he was or was not, he exemplified the greatest love and forgiveness, especially in forgiving even his tormentors and executioners. Is not this what the love of God would be like? If Jesus demonstrated the infinite capacity of God for love and forgiveness, and the noble emotions to which all humans could aspire, does it really matter whether he was God or a man?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

anyone assinine enough to name himself URAjewmonkey should not only be banned from the forums, but also shot, and all their offspring sterilized so they can't reproduce. There's enough ignorance in the world without people like this being allowed to breed.

besides, i thought it was the romans. (I shant be debating this by the way, so don't bother taking the issue up with me). but then i aint religious either.

al

[Chris Alger]

Your notion that one can't be guilty of anti-Arab racism unless one references "all" Arabs (your quotes) is the best testament I can imagine to your delusional mindset.

Let's see. Did the flamer who PM'd you actually say "all" the Jews killed Christ?

[George Rice]

[ QUOTE ]
If Jesus demonstrated the infinite capacity of God for love and forgiveness, and the noble emotions to which all humans could aspire, does it really matter whether he was God or a man?


[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I have aspired to be like certain people with respect to certain qualities in the past. But then again, if you believe Jesus to be the son of God, then you may feel obligated to follow all of his teachings, whether you would have otherwise agreed with them. I, for one, am not so quick to forgive certain things. For example, I wouldn't forgive someone like Osama Bin Laden, even if he repented. Whereas, Jesus/God might, in theory.

[MMMMMM]

Another quick thought:

Some don't pursue such lines of thought because they are atheist or agnostic. However I have recently thought that certain religious or philosophical ideas may be explored even without certain knowledge.

Imaginary numbers such as the square root of -1 do not exist, since any number squared always yields a positive result. Yet mathematics utilizes such numbers. So, in perhaps a distant analogy, just because God may be uncertain, unknown, or even considered impossible, does not mean that useful speculations cannot take place. Therefore the attributes one might expect God to have (if indeed there is a God), such as love and forgiveness, may somehow mean more.

I agree that, personally speaking, some things such as 9/11 may appear well-nigh unforgivable. And yes, there is a difference if one considers Jesus to be the actual Son of God, in terms of how much one might be inclined to believe of his teachings. But again, applying the aforementioned prism at a slightly different angle, how much would it matter whether his teachings came directly from God because he was God's Son, or whether his teachings (and actions) merely displayed the characteristics one would expect (in the noblest light) from God anyway? Food for thought, for me and perhaps others.

Well, I'm away for a few days. Later...

[slavic]

Gamblor -

That is just sick. There is a special place in hell for people like this.

[Taxman]

Essentially it was the Romans who killed Jesus, but at the urging of some prominent Jewish leaders. Either way to say that the Jews killed Jesus is the same as saying that the Muslims killed everyone in the WTC on 9/11. Both are obviously not accurate statements.