On my way to the poker hall of fame ;)

[Kalle]

Hi!

This is my very first post in here so go easy on me…..

What kind of a table should be correct choice when playing online for the first time? I mean what size? By the way, I have not played poker for real money before but I think now it’s a good time to start.

I have played play-money tables and Hoyle computer game (don’t laugh!). I have done this mainly because I wanted to learn the rules and memorize the Sklansky hand rankings and that how should you play with them in different position.

So I have read Sklankys TOP, THFAP and twice the HP (plus that "how to play the first two cards" section about 10 times /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Of course I have not been able to understand all the things mentioned in them because you have to play for somewhile before you can get a grip of all the things mentioned in these books. But I have memorized the hand ranking and how to play them in different positions. I understand probabilities and pot odds and consider myself to be a little more skilful than most beginners. I might be wrong on that of course!

But anyway, now I’m eager to go and play for some real money. Of course no book or computer program can really prepare you for what’s going on out there and I’m prepared to lose all of my poker bankroll. I mean that the money I have collected into it, is just a small part of my wealth.

My plan is to play as much as possible and the meantime read those Sklansky books over and over again! Until I wear those covers off! I have also ordered Bob Ciaffone’s books, so I will be doing some serious reading! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have gathered $800 for my poker bankroll. Like I said I’m prepared to lose them all but maybe not in one session! So, 20-40 limit in out of question! But what would be the proper size? I’m not very eager to start playing in those 0.5/1 or 1/2 or even 3/6 because the books I have read are aimed towards $10-20 and over. Of course this is too high stakes for me but what about 3/6, 4/8 or 5/10?
I have also heard that game on those very low limit tables can be pretty difficult. They are very loose and aggressive and a tight player won’t survive!

ANY KIND of an advice will be appreciated!

Ps. I have been reading this forum for couple of weeks and I have learned a lot! This is an excellent forum!

EDIT:
I forgot to mention that I have also read Jones WLLH. The "playing on the flop" -section is fantastic.

[Bob T.]

Welcome to the forum.

You didn't say whether you were going to play live, or online. You are at a stage, where you need a lot of poker education. You have to make a decision about how high you want the tuition to be. In live games, I would probably start playing 3-6, or 2-4 whichever is available. Your bankroll might not be large enough to survive the learning stage that you have to go through at those limits.

If you are going to play online, I would take advantage of the microlimits, and play .5/1.00 until you are satisfied that you can beat that level, and then move up. You are going to have to pay some tuition, so it may as well be at as low a limit as possible.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[JP2k1]

Despite what you may think, $.5/1 is a fine place to start if you haven't played for money before. I can definitely say the statement "tight players won't survive at low-limit online tables" is not necessarily true. That said, you will be getting outdrawn a lot by absolute garbage, but you should still expect to have positive earnings against these types of players in the long run.

Like Bob T. said, you will have to pay tuition, so you may as well start out at low limits. The temptation to move up, so you won't have to play with so many utter buffoons, will be there; but my advice would be to just stay at the low limit tables while you're learning the ropes.

It sounds like you've read a lot, so you should know how to play against these players anyway. Tighten up (or just refrain from) bluffs and semi-bluffs, and you may be able to loosen the standards for your legitimate hands a bit.

[SpiderMnkE]

Ok,

If you are really interested in learning the game. You need to start at .5/1 minimum. There is no reason to start at 2/4 or above. If you think the money is going to make the game boring.. it won't. There are fundamental concepts that you simply must learn from these very loose low limit games. These fundamentals are are an essential foundation to understanding why you are doing things in certain situations.

Plus, what if the game you are playing in a 2/4 or 3/6 or 10/20 morphs into a limp fest... if you haven't had the experience and crawled your way up through that level, then you won't know what to do when you are playing in this dynamic.

It sounds crappy... but you really should just start with 300 bucks and start at .5/1 and start building your roll and climbing through the limits.

If anything.. it will be a cheap way to conquer the emotional aspect of the game... going on a 100 BB losing streak will probably drive you insane if you haven't experienced it 2 or 3 times.

No matter how much you have read... there is a difference between knowing what to do and doing it. Because until you have had experiene... I promise you will mysteriously do things you KNOW not to do. Its a crazy phenomenon, and one that can only be overcome with experience. Some people never overcome this, they may be the best theoretical players out there.. but then they will throw bets away on boredom or tilt.

Anyway.. I'm starting to ramble... basically.. there is no reason to start at a higher limit... wanting to do so means that you are focusing too much on the money and not the game. The game deals with big bets, not dollars. If you earn your big bets up through the micros, you will eventually start noticing lots of dollars.

If you start in the high limits... vs people that have hundreds of hours on you.. you will not think about big bets and you will see many dollars leaving your bankroll.

[aas]

You need to start playing .5/1. I agree with all the replies that have been posted so far.

The majority of the players you will play at higher limits have started playing poker at these limits. You need to know were they are coming from.

No matter what the stakes, you will make the most profit when playing in loose passive games. So you need to be able to identify one, and take maximum advantage of it. The best place to find those games and "practice", is at the .5/1 limits.

During the first month or two, your game will improve dramatically, and when you later review your game, you will find out that you either used to suck, or you had lots of leaks that you don't have any more. You WILL make lots of mistakes when you start out. Why pay more?

I would start with $300 and stay at .5/1 until I reach $600. Then I would start playing 1/2 occasionally, and as I feel more comfortable at this new limit, I would slowly make the transition from .5/1 to 1/2. I would stay at 1/2 until I reach $1200. And so on. It is very important that you don't skip any level.

[ QUOTE ]
I have played play-money tables and Hoyle computer game (don’t laugh!). I have done this mainly because I wanted to learn the rules and memorize the Sklansky hand rankings and that how should you play with them in different position.


[/ QUOTE ]

...hence the need to start at lower limits.

Good luck,

aas.

[Kalle]

Thanks guys!

I will take your advice and "take it easy" and start with those micro-limit games 0.5/1 and very SLOWLY moving upwards. I will start with $300 and try to at least double it before I move 1/2.

EDIT:
By the way, is it any good to play in two different tables? Or should I just concentrate playing only in one table?

EDIT2:
I forgot to ask that should I avoid shorthanded games? Or play both full and shorthanded?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I have also heard that game on those very low limit tables can be pretty difficult. They are very loose and aggressive and a tight player won’t survive!

[/ QUOTE ]

who says this? it's completely wrong. oh, wait. that's right. those players who think playing agaisnt 'better' players is a better table than worse players. generally, players who think this have a gaping hole in their game.

you're playing for the 1st time for real money? play the lowest limit possible. even the pennies or .25-.50 tables if you have to. actually, .25-.50 will likely play like the pennies. you're not going to be a winning player right off. you might win a session, but chances are you wont be 'playing' a winning game yet. lucky to be a break even player at this point. but with playing experience, you'll get better fairly quick. everyone goes through this, btw...

i wouldnt worry about 'sustaining' a bankroll at this point. you're just getting your feet wet. post hands, and keep reading and studying. youll be pouring over those books many more times.

you may start out on a nice run, missing bets on the way, think the game is easy, move up too soon, underrolled, then hit the first bad streak and blow it. this is common, actually. we see this all the time on here. dont rush yourself. although, this usually has to be experienced first hand to appreciate it.

start out with one table at a time. no reason to do 2 or more at this point. you're game will be improving quite a bit. after a couple months, look back at where you were when you first started.

anyways...

just some thoughts.

have fun

b

[BugsBunny]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, is it any good to play in two different tables? Or should I just concentrate playing only in one table?

[/ QUOTE ]

To start with play only one table. You have enough to worry about without dealing with multiple tables. In a couple of months you can start thinking about multiple tables.

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot to ask that should I avoid shorthanded games? Or play both full and shorthanded?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, in the very beginning stick with full tables. It'll keep you from getting confused. Shorthanded is a different game requiring you to become looser and more aggressive - the more shorthanded the looser you have to become. But it's another learning process. A lot of full table players don't really know how to play shorthanded and it's definitely a skill I suggest you eventually acquire - but to start with stick with the full games. That's the foundation that the rest of your game will build on.

And remember - if you can't beat the bad players at the lower limits you'll never beat the better players at the higher limits. Every level that you move up through will teach you somthing - don't rush it.

[BigEndian]

These guys covered pretty much all of it, I just want to welcome you to the game. I look forward to you posting some hands (no "bad beat" or "how did I do with 4 of a kind" posts please). Eventually, you may want to invest in software like PokerTracker for self-analysis.

Oh, and read your ass off.

- Jim

[asdf1234]

Sounds like you have a decent start. Like everybody else said, start at the very low limits. If you can't beat horrible players, how will you beat good ones? The vast majority of these games are loose passive (not aggressive, as you mentioned), the best kind of game in poker. Sometimes they turn incredibly aggressive, and these types of games, while very profitable, are a little trickier to play and cause large bankroll swings. If you're not prepared for that, bail on the game, and find one where people are limping, not capping.

Playing tight is a major first step in becoming a good poker player. No matter how good you are, you can't make money if you're routinely limping in early position with A4o.

As for WLLH's playing the flop section, it is a great starting point for beginners, but there are some problems with it. I'll let you search the forums and find out what they are. That being said, I played that way for quite some time and it turned me from a fish into a small winner.

Good luck.

[eh923]

I agree with all of the assessments about starting low. The only reason that I'm commenting is that $800 was my starting bankroll, and I started playing 2/4 online. Poof...it disappeared at an alarming rate.

Also, I'm glad that you noted that some of the books you read are aimed at higher limits. Without significant experience, a lot of the plays within will blow up in your face, especially at the lower limits.

Good luck!

[Bob T.]

You just used one of the best tools for learning about this game that there is. That is posting on this forum. One thing that you want to do, is keep using it, there is literally hundreds of thousands of hours of low limit holdem experience at your fingertips, if want to access it.

Post hands that you have questions about - those are the ones that you probably are ready to learn about. Post hands that you think you played badly - sometimes, you find you did the right thing for the wrong reason, sometime you find that you just played them badly /images/graemlins/grin.gif. Post hands that you think you played brilliantly - but listen when people tell you that you didn't, you will probably learn something there too, or someone else might chime in with 'that was fricken beautiful', or 'played perfectly on every street' and you can walk around in a glow all day.

When other people post hands, put your take on them up for scrutiny, there is nothing better than learning from others mistakes, (in poker, it is also a lot cheaper) and try and figure out why people agree, or disagree with your thinking.

Now, there are a lot of threads every day, once you get involved in one, follow it to its finish, learn how people think about this game, and then go out and apply it.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.