Bad Fathers

[andyfox]

A national, church-sanctioned study documenting sex abuse by U.S. Roman Catholic clergy found that about 4 percent of clerics have been accused of molesting minors since 1950, a diocese said Thursday.

The Diocese of Yakima, Wash., said in a news release that the survey compiled by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found 4,392 of the 109,694 clergy who served over that five-decade period faced allegations of abuse.

While an allegation does not mean the abuse happened, one would think that the actual incidents, especially in the earlier decades, may have exceeded the accusation rate. But assuming the 4% rate is a good measure of actual occurrence, is this profession a sick profession, or is 4% about average?

[George Rice]

I would hope that 4% is way above average. At least in this day and age. And of course the real number of clerics doing this is higher, as some never filed a complaint. Maybe about 6%.

I suspect two main factors contribute to the problem. The first is the abstinence requirement of a priest. It just goes against human nature. With all this pent up sexual energy, it's no wonder it's going to find some outlet or another.

The second is that the Catholic church has a history of covering up these problems. So outside forces can not influence a change of behavior, or administer punishment. So the transgressors have no reason to fear exposure or punishment, and the problem festers.

[Ray Zee]

child molesters take positions where they can be in position to do their deeds. the church gives them this with great freedom and no chance of criminal procecution. anyone still worshiping the catholic church needs to look deep inside.

[Zeno]

One thing to consider is that even given the 4% rate, the abuse is most likely to more than one or two children or teenagers and may last for years etc. I have no firm numbers but I think that is a reasonable assumption. So the problem is larger than a simple 4% abuse pattern (and I agree with George Rice that the real percentage is probably a bit higher).

This abuse has been going on for, well, a very long, long time. It is sickening that the young are subject to this and that the Church appears more intent on covering up the abuse than dealing with the problem in an honest manner. It also shows, very pointedly, the outcome of antiquated theology based on brute ignorance, fear, and imbecilic ideas postulated by fanatical men of long ago. But this will continue, unfortunately, into the foreseeable future.

A very sick profession in that they have the absolute trust of many people and then use it against them, especially the young and impressionable and can destory their lives before they even get a good start. But in another vein, I suppose that the 4% rate should be compared to the sex abuse rate in the general population. A number that, again, may be hard to pinpoint. I have no idea what that number is.

-Zeno

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
child molesters take positions where they can be in position to do their deeds. the church gives them this with great freedom and no chance of criminal procecution. anyone still worshiping the catholic church needs to look deep inside.

[/ QUOTE ]

that is something of a contradiction

the issue is whether the church causes peodophilia or not - i definately agree, as you observe, that the church facilitates peodophilia but that doesnt address the question - peodophilia is always more common in a scenario of an adult being in a position of trust over children - if thats right then the conclusion is that the record of the church with regards to peodophilia is not remarkable

its of-course abbhorent that the church should seek to cover it up but in fairness to the church its not alone in so doing

i think the notion that the church creates peodophiles because of abstinence is nonsense - i think that a logical conclusion from some of the facts i have mentioned is that peodophilia is opportunistic - perhaps you have to be in a position of trust for such a tendency to manifest

i have met and dealt intimately with several peodophiles in my professional capacity (i used to be a criminal lawyer) - nearly all of them seemed normal people to me - most of them evidenced a detached sense of horror for thier actions and as a class of criminals displayed more genuine remorse than any other class

i reckon most peodophiles are not the monsters they are made out to be - i think they are people who suffer a genuine form of illness or disorder that as a society we should seek to understand more about

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[HDPM]

More genuine remorse than other criminals? My experience is the opposite. The most delusional/in denial criminals I have run across are child molesters. Not all of them are as bad as the worst I have seen and they definitely aren't all the same, but I have seen a real lack of remorse on more than one occasion. Often it is accompanied by unusual religious belief. I'm talking about the kind guys who say their 7 year old daughter who suffered years of stedy abuse came onto them etc....

[Ray Zee]

whether they are good, bad, remorseful or what ever, they are evil predators and must be stopped. since the church does little and covers up their deeds, you must then conclude that the catholic church promotes child molestation. as they give cover to those that do, or have in the past at least.
too bad you dont feel anger against the church in your post. or against the pedophiles. maybe you need to look deep inside yourself and see where you are coming from.

[andyfox]

I think the 4,000 or so cases involved over 10,000 abusees, so you're correct in assuming that this involves multiples instances per priest. And most of the abusees were indeed teenage boys.

[angry young man]

nobody worhips the Catholic church, people are members of a universal christian church that worships God.

[andyfox]

Here's a link to the AP story:

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040227/D80VNHE80.html

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
whether they are good, bad, remorseful or what ever, they are evil predators and must be stopped. since the church does little and covers up their deeds, you must then conclude that the catholic church promotes child molestation. as they give cover to those that do, or have in the past at least.
too bad you dont feel anger against the church in your post. or against the pedophiles. maybe you need to look deep inside yourself and see where you are coming from.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know where i'm coming from - let me show you

have you ever had the urge to steal something ? - when i was about 8 me and a freind attemtpted to steal an ice-cream from a local shop and got caught by the shopkeeper - he spoke to us sternly, took our names and threatened to tell our parents (he never did) - scared the piss out of me - many times since i have had the urge or at least the thought to steal something - in fact i am scrupulously honest - that shopkeeper did me a favour

ever had the urge to hurt someone ? - about a once a month experience for me - someone gets me so very angry or annoyed i have the urge to thump or slap them - sometimes i suffer from road rage and cant resist swearing violent abuse at a fellow road user under my breath - truth is that i am a gentle person - i havent actually thumped or slapped someone since i was around 14 at high school

if you tell me that you have never had the urge to steal something or the urge to hurt someone else i will call you a liar

ever had the urge to have sex with a child ? - i cant imagine it - i am a red blooded heterosexual male - not once has it occured to me that having sex with a child might be something i would like to do - i cant begin to think why anyone would want to do it - i dont mean i cant imagine it because its so obviously wrong - i mean i have no desire or understanding of why you would want to do it - i suspect your the same - most people are

a casual glance at human history or perhaps i should say human nature will tell you that we dont deal well with things we dont understand - if something is alien to us we tend to be scared of it - we like to kill or destroy foreign things - at the very least we discriminate against things unknown to us - history is littered with horrible things we have done as a result of ignorance and a lack of understanding and appreciation

peadophiles are very easy to hate and almost impossible to understand - warning bells ring in my head when i hear overtly ignorant hateful things said about peadophiles - i am uncomfortable to judge something i dont understand

as for the church - i have had little time for the church since about the age of 9 or 10 - i didnt like to wear shoes when i was a kid - still dont - not that my parent couldnt afford them just that i spent my summers clambering over sharp rocks and hot sand and not wearing shoes for 4 months - my best freind was from a religious family and i went to sunday school and church with him a few times because we were largely inseperable - one sunday i didnt have shoes and they wouldnt let me in - i'm still pissed about that - even at a young age the hypocricy of it was very apparent to me - now i am a borderline atheist - i dont get why there has to be 36 different forms of worshipping christ - i call them the PKFJ - people keen for jesus - i understand them well enough

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Al_Capone_Junior]

thanks for having the balls to take a stand and just SAY IT and skip the PC bullshit.

I agree, by the way.

al

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for having the balls to take a stand and just SAY IT and skip the PC bullshit

[/ QUOTE ]

i wondered for a while what PC was - finally i realised "politically correct" - what is politically uncorrect about about saying paedophiles are evil ? - it may not be exact proof to the contrary of your statement but i note that politicians love to say it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk