When to not bet flop after raising preflop?

[zepmetal]

My standard method of play is to bet the flop any time its checked to me after I have raised preflop. However, I feel like its not always the correct play. What do people think about this? Do you ever check it thru on the flop after youve raised? And on a related note, how does this change the way you play big cards preflop. As an example, lets say I've got KJo 3 from the button, 2 limpers, and I raise. The flops all undercards, but its not ragged, and it didnt hit me. In low stakes games, I've been called on all three streets and lost to A8o. Should I only fire out a bet on the flop, then give up? That makes me real predictable when I raise PF, bet the flop and check the turn. On the other hand, If I feel like I wont be able to bluff my way out of the hand when I dont hit, should I just call with marginal hands like KJo before the flop? I know that resorting to passive preflop play is not the answer.

My question is this...When is it correct to check the flop after raising preflop? Any comments on the subject are much appreciated.

-zep

[tripdad]

ZEPMETAL,

sometimes the reason you raise preflop is to see the turn free. obviously, this only works when you have the button or you have bought the button with your raise. this is the same concept of raising the flop when you are in late position with a flush/straight draw. WHEN YOU ARE LAST TO ACT ON THE FLOP AND THE ACTION IS CHECKED TO YOU AND YOU HAVE NOT HIT THE FLOP, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TAKE THE FREE CARD IF YOU ARE AGAINST MORE THAN ONE OPPONENT.

if you are in ep, you have hopefully only raised with premium hands which usually always warrant leading out the flop with a bet.

if you have AK suited or offsuit and have raised preflop from ep, i choose to bet out usually, especially if nothing over a ten hits. if i get raised, i usually raise back in an attempt to steal by representing a large pocket pair. this all is of course opponent dependant.

the problem you are having may have more to do with the type of hands you are raising preflop with. i think you have basically identified a leak in your game which you know needs plugged.

cheers!

[Chaos_ult]

just a side note:

Very rarely am i ever raising with KJo before the flop.

Im usually just calling, or somtimes folding.

[Jezebel]

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My standard method of play is to bet the flop any time its checked to me after I have raised preflop

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This makes you fairly predictable. If I'm sitting on your right, then I can use you to checkraise big hands at will. Don't be so predictable.

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However, I feel like its not always the correct play.

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its not. Theres no crime in checking on the flop after raising preflop. As a matter of fact, you need to be thinking more like, "what can I expect out of this bet", if the answer is not much, then you need to check.
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As an example, lets say I've got KJo 3 from the button, 2 limpers, and I raise. The flops all undercards, but its not ragged, and it didnt hit me.

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The three main factors you need to consider are:
1) the number of opponets
2) the type of opponents
3) your image as perceived by your opponents.
Sometimes I am more willing to semibluff into 3 tight opponents more than 1 loose opponent. You should only bet if you think you are ahead in the hand OR there is a good chance you bet will take the pot down. If Mr. Loose is going to call regardless, then there is much less value in your bet. Also, think about how the table is perceiving you. Have you been in alot of pots lately? Are you running over the table and showing down nothing but good hands?

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Should I only fire out a bet on the flop, then give up?

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Same as above. What will your opponent call a flop bet with? Does he always call a flop bet? How scary is that turn card? Does he routinely fold on the turn when he doesn't hit? How many opponents do we have to take down?

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That makes me real predictable when I raise PF, bet the flop and check the turn.

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Position makes a big difference on how I play these hands. From EP you should be checkraising the turn often with your made hands. It will earn you an occasional free card from your observant opponents and an extra bet from your less observant opponents. Even unobersant plyaers usually remember being checkraised.
If I have position, and I'm against one opponent, I'll usually bet the turn hoping to take it there. If he calls then I will check behind on the river. If he raises the turn, or bets into me on the river I'll usually fold. Don't try to bluff with AK on the river. If he has any part of the board he's going to call if no big cards are out. Check and call if you think he is bluffing. You have the nut no pair /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nate tha' Great]

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ZEPMETAL,

sometimes the reason you raise preflop is to see the turn free. obviously, this only works when you have the button or you have bought the button with your raise. this is the same concept of raising the flop when you are in late position with a flush/straight draw. WHEN YOU ARE LAST TO ACT ON THE FLOP AND THE ACTION IS CHECKED TO YOU AND YOU HAVE NOT HIT THE FLOP, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TAKE THE FREE CARD IF YOU ARE AGAINST MORE THAN ONE OPPONENT.

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I don't know if that's always true, or even usually true. Against two opponents, in a raised pot, I think it's worth a bet if there's any chance that you might get them to fold, *especially* if your hand has a limited number of outs.

For example, if I held A /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in the CO, raised one MP limper, and was called by only the limper and the BB, I'd bet a flop like

K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif approximately 100% of the time that it was checked to me.

Even against a larger field, a raise may be worth it if you have a good draw and you think you might rather take your free card on the turn.

An example might be if I held a hand like Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif, had raised on the Button, and there were four to a flop of

A /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Note that I have a gutshot as well as a backdoor flush draw. If my opponents were passive and not inclined to check-raise, I think it would be worthwhile to bet. Because of the presence of the A on the board, it would not be out of the question to get all of my opponents to fold, or all but one of my opponents to fold (in which case I could consider following up with a bet on the turn depending on what came off), provided that they did not hold an A or two spades. However, I wouldn't mind terribly if I had several callers and it was checked to me again on the turn, since I have outs to improve, but not so many outs that I'd necessarily want to put in a bet on the turn if it looks as though the hand is going to showdown.

[Louie Landale]

You MUST check often enough to prevent the opponents from routinely checking it to you. Also, many marginal PF raising hands are dogs if they don't flop anything, so you WANT to check these hands. If you raise with KJ and the flop is T74, routinely check and fold.

The texture of then board also matters. A small card and a small pair is SCREAMING for a bet since its so likely nobody can call. Two middle cards screams for a check since its so likely someone has something.

Always betting the flop only makes sense if you are very selective about the hands you DO raise PF with; such as AQs or better.

- Louie

[DeuceKicker]

For starters, I raise KJ from MP3 only if it's folded to me, otherwise I FOLD. If you have PokerTracker, look at your stats for KJo, especially in early and middle positions. KJo it my single biggest losing hand in PT