2 bluffs...

[bernie]

mucks 10-20.

4 or 5 limp to me in BB. i raise with JTs. all call.

flop A x x 2 tone

checked around. sb lifts his hands in a WTF? motion.

turn rag but makes 2 flush cards out with a ratty str8 draw possible, though unlikely given the players.

check, i bet, folded to LP who calls, HU.

river Q os

i bet...LP looks at the board and thinks a bit. though not nearly as long as the guy in hand 2.


bluff 2 (different session)

im in EMP somewhere with AKo. 1 limps, i raise, 2 callers and BB calls, 5 to the flop.

flop is raggy 2 tone.

checked to me, i bet, BB and EP limper call.

turn flush is possible along with a lesser str8 if one has a few gapped cards. i do not have a flush card.

BB bets out, but not confidently. this comes across as a genuine timid bet. this player isnt sophisticated enough to act here. EP folds. i dont think he has a flush, but if he does, if another flush card comes, i may be able to bump him off of it if i act like that's why im calling. if he doesnt have it and it hits, my river bet will be even stronger looking. i just get the feeling the way he bet that he doesnt have it. although, i figure im behind. im not sure by how much. (would a raise here set up a better bluff spot on the river?)

i recheck my hole cards quickly, then call as if im sliding one off.

river 4th flush card.

BB sighs and checks, i fire one out. BB is torn on calling or folding here. almost mucks his hand, then looks at it again. talking to himself. looking at the flop, then his hand. he really wants to muck this. this goes on for about 45 seconds. which seems like an hour. watching him twist like this is pure entertainment. he's not acting either. he is really torn on his decision here. along with everyone else looking knowingly like i have the flush and he'd be nuts to call if he doesnt have one that's at least a little high. then he decides to...

any thoughts?

b

[James282]

In hand one you gave up on the flop, so you need to not try that nonsense afterward. Bet the flop, with no draws they are folding unless they have an ace or better since you raised preflop. Now the turn card comes and you feel the need to bet. These sort of hindsight bets(AH! I shoulda bet the flop!) are going to cost you a lot of money. Now this guy who picked up a draw on the turn hits a queen and has a decision, whereas he almost definitely would have folded the flop if my read is correct. So you have to either bet the flop or give up on the flop - no two ways about it. I also don't like the preflop raise because you are out of position - you can't take a free card on the flop when you need one and it is difficult to extract the maximum when you do make your draw.
-James

[elysium]

hi bernie
hand 1) nice bluff.

hand 2) he raises.

[bernie]

the preflop raise was fine. you cant only just raise with premiums in this game.

i didnt forget to bet the flop, i checked expecting to check and fold. but when no one bet, then the possibility of running a bluff presented itself.

b

[astroglide]

i like the raise w/jts out of the blinds, and i like the flop check. if it checks around you can fire and look like you flopped a monster. if it doesn't, oh well. people will DEFINITELY call a flop bet with a pocket pair here, but are much more likely to fold it if the flop checks through and you bet the turn.

[bernie]

hand 1

2 tone board, but i still took a chance. i figure if anyone called, they may be drawing so id have to fire again on the river. after a little bit of thought, and card tapping, he folded. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

woo hoo

hand 2

this guy put on quite a show. fun to watch actually, as i mentioned. lasted about 45 sec. which is quite awhile to sit and wait with a bluff in front of you.

he called. no flush, but had 2nd nut str8 that he got on the turn.

he was shocked as hell that he won. look on his face was priceless. went from defeatedly blank from his 'donation' call, to utter amazement. guy next to me was pissed cause he folded a higher str8 on the turn.

given my read on the player, im not sure if a turn raise wouldve helped it along with him folding the river. it may have, but that's alot to put in to bump someone off their hand though. but maybe...

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
In hand one you gave up on the flop, so you need to not try that nonsense afterward. Bet the flop, with no draws they are folding unless they have an ace or better since you raised preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

the flop was 2-tone. meaning a possible flush draw on the flop.

b

[bernie]

this was very much part of my thinking. especially after everyone checked around. anyone bets the flop and im gone. checked around, so i can look like a missed c/r with a big hand. that raise preflop, check when the A hits can look suspicious, so why not use it if the opportunity presents itself.

though with a 2-tone board, i figure ill have to fire twice.
it's essentially a 2 street bluff if i miss the river.

b

[Joe Tall]

Hand#1: Perfectly reasonable.

Hand#2: I don't have the stones to do it and give up earlier, nice one though.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand#2: I don't have the stones to do it and give up earlier, nice one though

[/ QUOTE ]

it was actually pretty fun to try. but, mind you, i also had a pretty good read on the table and this player that helped.

b

[Slik Rik]

I would have to agree with james. Bad place to raise on the first one, especially with five other people in the hand with you. Sure they all checked after you checked the flop but after giving them the free card someone definately could have hit the turn or picked up a draw. According to Sklansky it is rarely right to try to bluff more than one opponent, especially five of them. Might have worked this time but can't believe it will over the long run.

[bernie]

actually S & M recommend the raise occasionally in this spot. when a blank hits the turn, and there are players in that wouldve bet if the flop hit them and didnt, it's a good spot to try it.

b

[Slik Rik]

Again I agree they didn't show much strength checking the flop but there are five people to fool.

[bernie]

i could also hit a J or T on the river and be good. my bet on the turn could get out a better kicked J or T. since the turn was a relative blank, it makes the turn bet much easier.

also, as astroglide mentioned, it looks like i could be playing a monster to the turn. or missed a c/r on the flop.

curious: if you didnt know my hand, what would you put me on given my play? evidently not a bluff...

b

[34TheTruth34]

in hand one, it looks to the rest of the table like you either flopped a monster of have pocket kings or queens. As long as nobody has an ace (and they probably don't because it got checked around), you could take this pot down on the turn more than often enough to make this a profitable bet.

Hand two is riskier, but once you get that read like he doesn't have much, there's nothing wrong with acting on it. It sure looks like you called trying to make a flush, so maybe he laid it down.

All in all, I think you picked two pretty good hands to try a bluff. As Mason always likes to remind us, they don't have to fold very often to make this profitable.