Whats the river play..I found this an interesting hand

[Mike Gallo]

$6-$12 at the Borgata.

Five limpers to me and I pick up 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif in the big blind and check my option.

Flop comes A /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to a thinking player who bets. I call UTG calls.

Turn A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

Everyone checks

River 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check under the gun bets thinking player raises whats my play?

[gonores]

call and pray

[Lori]

I'm going to finally have a shot at one of these.

I call.

Reasoning:

Thinking player could have the bigger flush, having taken his free card.
That doesn't concern me greatly, but also I am likely to get the overcall from UTG here if I don't raise, whilst I'm not if I do.
So putting the odds of getting the extra bet from -AND being in front of - the thinking player vs the odds of getting an overcall from the guy we hope we have beat, I take the call and try to get the extra bet when I'm in front.

Lori

[Homer]

I definitely don't raise.

I typically auto-coldcall and go for the overcall.

If I'm on top of my game, I strongly consider folding. No, I'm not kidding.

-- Homer

[Mike Gallo]

If I'm on top of my game, I strongly consider folding. No, I'm not kidding.

That made me feel really good. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Mike Gallo]

Ok lets recap.

I have a baby flush with a straight board and a paired board. UTG bet, someone I considered a thinking player raised. I agonized and folded.

UTG called.

Thinking player had AJ for the boat.

UTG had a flopped broadway.

I cannot believe that neither player bet the turn.

Fancyplayeritis must have hit both players. I felt very happy with the fold.

[Mike Gallo]

Lori,

The thinking players raise through me for a loop. He didnt go for the overcall.

I realized he gave the free card on the turn when he filled up. He raised hoping he would action from the flush.

He gave his entire thought process behind the hand. The player who flopped Broadway claimed to have not even seen the flush.

[Lori]

Understood.

Thanks for the clear explaination.

I learned something today, that's a good thing.

Lori

[gonores]

Thinking player is a bad thinker.

I'd love to find out how he got past "I have the second nuts and I'm last to act on the turn with a board that both my opponents very likely have a piece of" without firing a bet.

[JTG51]

Why didn't you bet the river? Did you actually think your hand wasn't best before you saw the river action?

If you were trying to check raise the thinking player, I don't like it. That will face UTG with two bets cold, and it will open the door to a 3-bet if someone does have a better hand.

[Mike Gallo]

Why didn't you bet the river?

Good question. I really did not think I had the best hand.I would have called a bet, however I did not want to call a raise and risk getting reraised.

If you were trying to check raise the thinking player, I don't like it. That will face UTG with two bets cold, and it will open the door to a 3-bet if someone does have a better hand

Never even entered my mind. I put the villian on AQ or AJ. The villian sat in ep. He did not auto raise with AK AJ or AQ. He raised from ep with AA-JJ.

[Mike Gallo]

Doug,

I can excuse that, however what about utg. He flopped broadway. He missed the turn check raise and bet when the flush hit that he did not see.

[bunky9590]

Mikey,
I lead out the river. But if it gets raised and reraised back to me, mucksville. I would want some value for the flush, if double raised back to me, I know its beat.

[gonores]

Oh no...UTG is not excused, but he is a tried and true bad player. I'm just saying that the thinking player in this hand might need to be knocked down a notch in terms of respect.

[Trix]

7:2(maybe 8 if he calls, he could also reraise though...) isnt enough to make me coldcall with the smallest flush on a paired board against someone you called thinking...

[Mike Gallo]

I'm just saying that the thinking player in this hand might need to be knocked down a notch in terms of respect.

I agree. That and his constant post game analysis of how he played the hand.

[Mike Gallo]

Trix,

Pretty much my thinking here.

[Schmed]

Man I want to fold this but I would call the 24.

I'm thinking that you maybe should have come out betting on the river. Announce that you have a flush. The guy in the middle has an A and the thinking player probably has everyone beat.......at least that's my fear of a thinking player........

[Joe Tall]

MG,

I lead out on this river and make a note about thinking player's FPS.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Mike Gallo]

I lead out on this river and make a note about thinking player's FPS.

Had the thinking player bet, he could have capped the turn. UTG claimed he checked the turn because he wanted to check raise. If he led out, he would have gotten a lot of action.

I think both players played their hands pretty badly.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey MG,

I would've bet the river and called a raise. As you played it, I think you should DEFINITELY fold the river. Not maybe, not perhaps; definitely. You do not, IMO, have a 22% chance of beating both of these players. There's also the chance of a reraise behind you, which you would have to fold to. At least I'm hoping you would.

I'm hoping you found the fold button on this one. Err...mucking motion.

GoT

[Mike Gallo]

I'm hoping you found the fold button on this one. Err...mucking motion.

No worries Guy, the cards found their way to the muck rather quickly.

[JTG51]

I put the villian on AQ or AJ.

Great read then. I would have thought QJs was much more likely.

[Mike Gallo]

Great read then. I would have thought QJs was much more likely

When he checked the turn, and then raised the river warning lights went on. I figured he would get tricky with what he considered the best hand.

I really hated the play when utg showed Broadway. Then when the thinking player showed AJ I felt redeemed.

[JTG51]

...and then raised the river warning lights went on.

I guess I wasn't clear. I'm still talking about your first river decision, to check, before any betting or raising happened. At that point I would have thought a counterfeited QJ was more likely than a full house, so I would have bet the river.

[Louie Landale]

Fold the river for 2 bets in this small pot. If you ARE tempted to call the raise then without a doubt you do better by betting yourself unless you have REAL good reason to believe someone will stone-cold bluff this one.

I don't know why you didn't raise the flop on a counter steal. There is just TOO much chance the thinking player WOULD have raised with big cards in last position and is now stealing it. AND he is likely to FOLD some cheese like A2s or Q9s. Reconsider if he calls the raise.

- Louie

[Mike Gallo]

At that point I would have thought a counterfeited QJ was more likely than a full house, so I would have bet the river.

This type of player will check with a made hand but bet with a hand he viewed as vunerable.

He missed a lot of action on the turn. UTG told him after the hand he went for a turn check raise.

We have had very good games lately. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Mike Gallo]

Louie,

The thinking player sat +3 utg for this hand.

Everything indicated to me that he had a better hand than mine.