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View Full Version : Flopping mid pair in the BB - Bet out?


Schaefer
02-22-2004, 03:06 AM
Only completed one orbit so no read on any of the players.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO-1 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB folds.

My question is, with a mediocre hand like this is it better to check-raise a typical player who will probably bet out when checked to? I think this concept would apply more to a late position player rather than a UTG+1, but I'm curious if I should do it even here. Is the move better in a multiway pot? It seems like this situation comes up quite often and I'm never sure how to play it. I'll include the rest of the hand just in case I screwed up on any of the later streets.

Thanks, Schaefer

Turn: (2.5 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (4.5 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.5 BB

tipperdog
02-22-2004, 03:26 AM
I think your flop play was clearly correct. EPs most likely holding is overcards. It's highly unlikely he's holding a 6 or 8, if he's a normal player open-limping from EP. With only 4 bets in the pot, he'd be incorrect to call you with overcards only.

Check-raising is more important when the pot is larger (either because the pot was raised or because more players are in). In situations with 7 bets in the pot, an overcard holding is correct to call you for a single bet. Hence, you must confront them with a double bet, even it means taking some risk of allowing a free card. (Of course, in this case, you couldn't have check raised anyway, since the SB had already checked).

BTW, Why didn't you raise on the river? Unless I'm mistaken, you're beaten ONLY by an 8. It's highly unlikely he's holding an 8, and if he is, I think you would have heard about it before now. I think you missed a bet there.

Schaefer
02-22-2004, 04:20 AM
Thanks for the explaination. I read about the check-raise play somewhere but the application makes much more sense now. That brings up a new question. Given the proper situation, I check-raise, bettor calls. Even if I don't improve, bet out on the turn and river? I think that I have to but I could easily be setting myself up to get raised on the river if the late player really does have top pair or something better.
As far as missing a bet, I agree that it's highly unlikely that he was hoding an 8 but I felt like if I put in a raise, he folds everything but an 8. I guess he may have called with an A so maybe a raise isn't a bad idea. In this case, he had QJo and I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have called the raise.

Thanks, Schaefer

Bob T.
02-22-2004, 05:51 AM
Why aren't you checkraising the river, after you check? I would think that you are way ahead most of the time here, and you just go top pair to bet the river.

I like the bet on the flop, I think you are ahead in enough pots, to make this a good bet, and you will either win the pot early, or win a big enough pot often enough to pay for this bet. You also will make it harder for your opponents to fold when you have top pair, or bigger hands, and bet in similar situations.