How different are suited connectors from one gappers?

[spamuell]

I've been wondering this for a while now. Occasionally, I've seen some respected posters qualify their advice with statements like "T9s is OK here but I'd muck T8s".

Are these hands really that different? Could anyone give an example situation where they might play 98s but not 97s? What about where 97s is OK but not 96s?

Is there a situation where T8s is playable but not 98s? Or the other way around?

Thanks in advance

[balkii]

Gappers dont make as many straights.

Connector: T9 makes 678, 78J, 8JQ, JQK -- 4 straights, and 3 of them are the nuts.

One-gapper: T8 makes 679, 79J, 9JQ -- 3 straights, and only 2 of them are the nuts.

Two-gapper: T7 makes 689, 89J -- 2 straights, both of them the nuts

Three-gapper: T6 makes 789 -- 1 non-nut straight.

Also the fewer gaps the better chance of flopping an open-ended straight draw instead of a gutshot.

So basically your pot/implied odds dont need to be as good if you have T9, compared to if you have T7, cause its easier to make a hand.

[spamuell]

Balkii, thanks for your reply.

I see this difference (about making more straights), but I was wondering how this actually applies to your decisions before the flop. If you were on the button after 4 limpers, would you rather have T8s or 98s? What about after 2 limpers?

I was wondering how to take these differences in the potential of each hand and adapt my play towards it. I'd guess in the example I gave that with 4 limpers you'd prefer the 98s because the more straights it makes are getting better implied odds but with 2 limpers, if you did decide to see a flop, you'd prefer the T8s because it makes a higher pair? Or is this difference negligible?

[rockrobinoff]

98s is virtually always better than t8s - whether heads up or multiway. The high card value of either is poor, and while you can expect to win with t8s a fraction of a percentage point more often than 98s when niether improve, you still (for the most part) have to hit your hand to win - and 98s has greater chances to hit.

[gonores]

Tell you what, we'll play heads-up, you take 98s every time, I'll take T8s every time, and we'll see who wins. It's one less friggin straight....gonna be lots more times when tens beat nines, when one pair of eights gets outkicked by the other pair, and lots of times when we both miss the entire board.

[Mike Gallo]

I like 10 8 and 5 8 because many opponents will not see the straight until they payoff /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

[ QUOTE ]
Two-gapper: T7 makes 689, 89J -- 2 straights, both of them the nuts

[/ QUOTE ]

In your second example, QT is the nuts.

[rtrombone]

With a "max stretch" suited connector (JTs-54s), the odds of flopping either a flush draw or 8 out straight draw are 5-1. With a "max stretch" one-gapper (QTs-53s), the odds of flopping either a flush draw or 8 out straight draw are 5.8-1.

There's a slightly greater difference between offsuit connectors and one-gappers. With JT-54 offsuit, it's a little better than 7.5-1 that you'll flop either a straight or 8 out straight draw. With QT-53 offsuit, it's 10.65-1 against flopping a straight or 8 out straight draw.

You can find all this information in Mike Petriv's Hold 'em odds book.

[Spyder]

With two and 4 limpers you don't have the pot odds to even call, unless you're one of the blinds. In a 10/20 game, 4 limpers, you have 55 in the pot giving you 5.5 to 1 pot odds for a much longer draw.

I'm a newb, please correct me if I'm wrong /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Spyder

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two-gapper: T7 makes 689, 89J -- 2 straights, both of them the nuts

[/ QUOTE ]

In your second example, QT is the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right you are. I knew there was something wrong when I posted that. I was like....hmmmm they cant both be the nuts.

Dont pay too much attention to any post I make after 10 pm or so.

[spamuell]

With two and 4 limpers you don't have the pot odds to even call

You don't need the immediate pot odds - hands like this thrive off implied odds. The idea is that if you hit the board hard, you win a large pot, and when you miss it's quite cheap to get out.

[Lunamondo]

If it's a loose game it makes little difference weather it's a one gapper or not, but when 4-draws are worth little or nothing and all one gets is being dominated, I can easily believe that the one 4-draw, or was it (also) a straight, less with the one gappers can make the difference. T8s is the lowest one gapper that I have some respect towards, while 97s looks to me like 54s. JTs might always be muckable after two more or less dominating limpers.

[GuidoSarducci]

This is true, but you still want to make sure that you have the proper odds to try to make your hand. Otherwise, why not play anything pre-flop and fit or fold post-flop?