Please help me with book selection

[NaobisDad]

Right now I own Super/System, TOP, HEPFAP & I got Champ. Pot/No limit and Caro's book of tells underway.
I'm thinking about buying Psychology of Poker, Winning Low Limit Hold'Em Inside the poker mind and perhaps some of the Essays books.

What I want to know is this: I want to buy 4 books at once (for shipping cost purposes). Do you think I should change the four titles I've decided upon because you thinks there are other books I should read first( perhaps books by Caffione?) Or are these books a logical addition to the ones I have?

Please share your thoughts, thank you

[jdl22]

I would say that if you have read and understand TOP and HPFAP then you probably don't need WLLHE. I have read it and HPFAP is much better and more advanced so if you are able to gain from HPFAP you probably don't need it.

I would highly reccomend Psychology of Poker. See the thread I started on Psychology of poker for a discussion of Psychology of poker and Inside the Poker mind.

Based on what others have said and excerpts I have read I would reccomend the essay books over WLLHE.

[FeliciaLee]

Tell us more about what you are interested in.

Game? Limit? Tourneys? B&M or online? How much experience you have? Why you think that you play poker?

[NaobisDad]

Well, basically I play limit hold em most. Other interests are draw, lowball, seven stud & Omaha. Nothing surprising imo.
I play poker just because I love it.
I'm in no big hurry to become really good or whatever, so don't take this as a "what should I read to beat the pro's" post.
I just like reading about poker and learning much from it.
Why I ask, is because i was a little disappointed about HEPFAP. It offered little new info imo. That's why I queried intensively about WLLH in another thread.

Because as much as i like reading, I don't like spending money on a book which has info I already have.

I'm basically a ring game player, will try some local casino tourney's soon (B&M).

I prefer life games so much over online. But the benefits of online should be clear, and often it's the only choice.

Hope this helps, if anyone requires more info just ask

[La Brujita]

I think you might want to try WLLH. It is a good taking off point. I don't mean to sound critical but I have read over 25 poker books and none contained more new and important information than HEPFAP.

When I first read it I was a virtual beginner and only understood about 20-25% of the book. I found it very inaccessible. I have read it three more times and find it extremely central to my game.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, basically I play limit hold em most. Other interests are draw, lowball, seven stud & Omaha. Nothing surprising imo.
I play poker just because I love it.
I'm in no big hurry to become really good or whatever, so don't take this as a "what should I read to beat the pro's" post.
I just like reading about poker and learning much from it.
Why I ask, is because i was a little disappointed about HEPFAP. It offered little new info imo. That's why I queried intensively about WLLH in another thread.

Because as much as i like reading, I don't like spending money on a book which has info I already have.

I'm basically a ring game player, will try some local casino tourney's soon (B&M).

I prefer life games so much over online. But the benefits of online should be clear, and often it's the only choice.

Hope this helps, if anyone requires more info just ask

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, based on what you have told me, these would be my choices in a loose order of importance:

1) Psychology of Poker
2) Inside the Poker Mind
3) Theory of Poker
4) Killer Poker
5) Tournament Poker for Advanced Players
6) Concepts in Draw & Lowball
7) Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players
8) High/Low Split Poker
9) Omaha Hold'em Poker

After these first nine, there are many more I would suggest, but here is a start for you.

The reason that the psychology and poker theory books are listed first is because of your comment about "loving poker." You obviously will benefit from studying the psychological side of poker, as well as the theory behind good play.

On the surface, HEFAP might seem deceptively simple. Be assured it is not. What might seem be an obvious play, is usually not a play that you will see in a typical game.

As you go through some of the advanced plays in HEFAP, ask yourself questions like, "This seems so obvious to me, so simple, but when have I seen it last? When did I make this play last?" I think you will be surprised if you answer honestly.

HEFAP is meant to be read again and again, thoroughly studied over the period of many years. As you continue to play and read it, I think you will discover that it is not as simple as you believe.

Good luck! Please feel free to ask if you have any further questions.

[NaobisDad]

[ QUOTE ]

Okay, based on what you have told me, these would be my choices in a loose order of importance:

1) Psychology of Poker
2) Inside the Poker Mind
3) Theory of Poker
4) Killer Poker
5) Tournament Poker for Advanced Players
6) Concepts in Draw & Lowball
7) Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players
8) High/Low Split Poker
9) Omaha Hold'em Poker


[/ QUOTE ]

I have Theory of Poker, but the one that surprises me most in the list is Killer poker! I thought that was just some bul**** book.

[ QUOTE ]

The reason that the psychology and poker theory books are listed first is because of your comment about "loving poker." You obviously will benefit from studying the psychological side of poker, as well as the theory behind good play.


[/ QUOTE ]

Being a psychologist myself I was already interested in these books. Also, another thread on dr. Schoonmaker (that's actually dutch for "cleaner" by the way) book helped me in that decision as well.

[ QUOTE ]

On the surface, HEFAP might seem deceptively simple. Be assured it is not. What might seem be an obvious play, is usually not a play that you will see in a typical game.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm rereading it, mostly due to what Brujita posted, and I after I shook off the initial disappointment I'm really appreciating it a lot more. The reason I was disappointed initially is because I found that a lot of the concepts discussed in HEFAP were explained better in TOP. I found a lot of the info to be double, plus I found the question and answer section cheesy.

But rereading now I appreciate it more. Especially the shorthanded play and the miscellanious section.

I appreciate your feedback. I would like it if you could tell me a bit more about killer poker. But these books seems like a good place to start

[La Brujita]

I guess I will throw out a few more suggestions if I may. I like Mike Caro's "Fundamental Secrets of Winning Poker" it is not a thick tome like book (if you know what I mean) but is very short and accessible, and it only costs about $10. I enjoyed getting through it one afternoon at B&N. I think it had some really good advice.

As you are reading partly for the love of the game (and not just to improve your poker) have you considered any of the great books about poker that are not instructional books? I love Holden's Big Deal, and would also recommend Positively Fifth Street and The Biggest Game in Town.

Finally, on my list of the three best poker books I have ever read is Pot Limit and No Limit Poker by Ciaffone and Reuben. It doesn't exactly mesh with where your interests lie now, but keep it in mind when you want to make the jump.

Regards

[NaobisDad]

I was wondering about Caro's book. Nice to hear it contains useful information. I always enjoy Caro's writing. He really entertians the reader.
As for the non-instructional books. That's very interesting. I had not even considered buying those kind of books, even though i enjoyed what Brunson wrote about his life and I loved the articles by players who wrote about their WSOP experiences. Certainly a refreshing advice.

Caffione's and Reubens book is definately on my wishlist! And considering the books I've been advices to buy I think I'm going to reconsidering limiting it all to 4 books, it will probably be more like 10 /images/graemlins/wink.gif. Love of the game, I guess.

Thanks in advance for all the advice.

[FeliciaLee]

If you're a psychologist, I think you will know why I picked Killer Poker when you read it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm glad you are rethinking your initial impression of HEFAP.

I am a big fan of Mike Caro's book, Fundamentals, too. I didn't list that one, because I don't think it made the final cut of the list I sent you, but I highly recommend it, as well.

[Mung]

I too can recommend Killer Poker. It's about getting into your own head and the heads of your opponents.

[NaobisDad]

Right now I'm considering the entire list you posted Felicia. Except for TOP of course, since I have that one.
Why didn't WLLH by Jones make your list? I'm curious to know. Since the reason I posted this thread in the first place is because of a thread in which a plethora of people adviced me to buy it.

Furthermore, books like SCSFAP and the such have been on my list as well!
By the way, what is the general opinion about Suzuki's books?

As for HEFAP, it think the AP in that abbreviation should explain my initial troubles. I'm no advanced player, and therefore might not have been able to appreciate. Your little tip on asking myself "how often have I made this play" is really interesting as well. I'm putting it to good use, not only in this book but on every bit of
pokerliterature I read. Thanks.

Ps. I take it that by Hi/Lo Split poker you mean the book by Ray Zee, but who wrote the omaha book and what other Omaha books do you consider to be worth while?

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now I'm considering the entire list you posted Felicia. Except for TOP of course, since I have that one.
Why didn't WLLH by Jones make your list? I'm curious to know. Since the reason I posted this thread in the first place is because of a thread in which a plethora of people adviced me to buy it.

Furthermore, books like SCSFAP and the such have been on my list as well!
By the way, what is the general opinion about Suzuki's books?

As for HEFAP, it think the AP in that abbreviation should explain my initial troubles. I'm no advanced player, and therefore might not have been able to appreciate. Your little tip on asking myself "how often have I made this play" is really interesting as well. I'm putting it to good use, not only in this book but on every bit of
pokerliterature I read. Thanks.

Ps. I take it that by Hi/Lo Split poker you mean the book by Ray Zee, but who wrote the omaha book and what other Omaha books do you consider to be worth while?

[/ QUOTE ]
I have the Jones book. I didn't mention it because I think the 2+2 books are better. A true beginner could buy the Fundamentals book by Mason and Hold'em Poker by David. Someone who has a little bit of experience could buy HEFAP. That is just my own view.

As far as the Suzuki book, I think David's is much better, and if you have never played a tourney before, you might learn just as much online, without spending a dime.

Yes, the High/Low Split Poker book is the Zee book. Bob Ciaffone has an excellent Omaha book named Omaha Hold'em Poker . It mostly addresses Omaha High, but it is fantastic, at any rate.

A few months ago, Mason reviewed some "newer" poker books (he had originally reviewed most poker books available in the back of his book, Gambling Theory and Other Topics ).

If you do a search of "book reviews" in the archive of this forum, you should find it. That may help you select additional titles.

Good luck!

[Mung]

[ QUOTE ]
I take it that by Hi/Lo Split poker you mean the book by Ray Zee, but who wrote the omaha book and what other Omaha books do you consider to be worth while?

[/ QUOTE ]
Winning Omaha/8 Poker
Mark Tenner, Lou Krieger

The Jones book on low-limit poker is good.

[NaobisDad]

Thanks, a lot of people argued that about the Jones book. I am just afraid that once I read it I'll conclude what Felicia argued, that the information is contained in other books. That wouldn't please me at all. I hate spending money on books which contain information I already have.

But after a long discussion in another thread I've decided to go ahead and buy it. What's the worst that could happen?

[subq]

I bought Jones and sold it 2 days later. Was a very quick read (and very basic IMO) after reading other books on the subject.

[Mano]

I would definitely recommend Improve Your Poker and Mid Limit Holdem by Ciaffone. I would also suggest that you check out overstock.com - they have some very good prices on many of these books.

[NaobisDad]

Thanks. Overstock has been suggested to me by a number of people and they have a fair share of the books I want.
I hear many good things about Ciaffone's writing. I plan on buying pot & no limit by him and steward. But I'll keep these in mind.