Betting the nut flush on the turn?

Here's an example from last night that worked out, but probably played this "wrong". I'm on the button with A5 of hearts, 3 limpers and both the blinds. Flop is Tc 8h 4h, SB bets all called to me I raise everyone calls. Turn is Qd.. its checked to me. Normally here I would check it off of course but for some reason I bet out - 3 callers. River is the lovely 9h - cutoff bets into me, I of course raise, he reraises, and PP caps it at 4 bets. He shows 6 7 of spades but could have (and should have) easily been a lesser flush draw. Now obviously he must have put me on Tx or trips of some kind after the turn bet which explains the river raise. If I had checked off the turn he should have easily put me on the flush draw and check called or check folded the river. How often do you make this kind of play, or is it a bad play?

your bet was okay, especially since now an ace may be an out.


id usually take the free card though.

I've always been under the assumption that, based on the amount of money already in the pot, if you can get at least three callers with the nut flush draw, this is a bet for value. Am I wrong here?

Three callers on the flop, not the turn. It's 9/46 or 4.1-1 to make the flush, slightly worse unless the callers are all very loose (another flush draw might be there). Of course an ace hit might be good, making it 2.8-1, but if a caller holds one of everyone's favorite card, you're screwed on both on your chance of hitting and chance of winning if you do.

It's correct because in LL you have a good chance of winning the pot uncontested whether or not a heart/ace comes. People with top pair etc usually let you know with a reraise somewhere. Chances that the other 3 are all on some sort of draw are pretty good. I routinely steam this all the way through and take it down uncontested. Make sure to keep an eye on your opponents and see if they telegraph any intentions.

I think the turn bet is okay because you will get out any second or third pairs or small pockets on the flop who habitually call for one more small bet. You may even get off a weak T.


This means that if you miss the river you may win with A high over another flush draw.


Furthermore, since people often expect you to take the free card, they may not give you credit for the flush as you found out.


Had the turn been a small card I think a bet is even more important because you don't want overcards staying to hit for free on the river and beat your A-high if you miss.


You should also get a bit more action on your made hands if they have to wonder whether or not you are just betting your draw on the turn.


This may sound like I advocate betting the turn every time, I do not, but I would make the bet often enough to keep the opponents guessing and when I am fairly confident that I won't get re-raised.


Regards,


Paul Talbot

I agree with Paul on almost every aspect. I often find that with a not so threatening board, you will take it down on the turn, especially since a good player would have put you on a set with the raise after the flop; and more so to get your flush draws paid when you do make them. I found that in my game, I routinely got paid off less when rivered my draws (flush, or open ended) when holding overcards also, than when I didnt get my straight, but paired my overcards. Like what was said before, I wouldn't steam through everytime, since the whole deciding factor on this play was mixing it up to get paid on later draws; I would do this often ONLY if you are sure that you will have 3 callers. I do not believe that your outs are quite as high as mentioned before, just because you may already be up against a set, and pairing the board with a heart might get you killed, or even being up against A-10, and pairing your overcard doesnt matter. Once in a long while I will find that I folded my 10-J to a raise, just to find that I ws up against two draws that didnt hit, so a raise may drop the 10-X, and put you against a lesser flush draw semi-bluffer, and your A will take it down. comments on my response are very welcome and appreciated.

You've gotta be kidding. Nobody folds. They will call you with any pair on the river too, so you may as well check again there if you don't make your draw, since your ace has a good chance of beating them if they are on a draw also.


with 1 opponent you should bet the turn, but with 3 just take the card and be happy for it. You will need to show down the best hand to win.


Wardy

"Nobody folds"


Maybe in your game, but that isn't always the case in mine. Calling the turn and folding the river is a staggeringly regular occurance from players in my game.