Pocket 8s against an overcard and some cooridination

[Luke]

Party 10 handed 3-6. Game is usually seeing 4 players to a flop with only moderate raising. One super fishy aggressive guys accounts a lot of the raising but he's UTG and not involved in this hand.

My lone opponent in this hand, MP, hasn't done anything so far this session to draw my attention.

The MP player open limps, it's folded to me in the CO-1, I raise with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and it's folded back to the MP who calls.

The flop comes:

Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Check, I bet, he calls.

Turn:

6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

He bets. I raise. He calls.

River:

2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Check. Check.

How did I do?

Results and reasoning behind my play to follow.

Luke

[Clarkmeister]

Seems fine.

[Luke]

As I said, the river went check-check and my opponent turned over A /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif, so my hand was good.

I thought my preflop and flop play was pretty standard and no one would have beef with that.

But what about my turn play?

When that 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif fell and MP bet out, I gave a lot of thought to folding. Obviously, I thought there was some chance that MP had one of the many hands that beat me. But I also thought this guy might be betting out on this scare card to see if I'll lay down my hand, figuring I might have missed the flop entirely. He could be doing this with a semi-bluff draw or maybe a small pair.

So I decided to raise with the intention of folding to a 3-bet or taking the "free showdown" if he called. Who likes or dislikes this line of play?

Also, who feels I missed a value bet on the river?

Luke

[Brian]

Hi Luke,

I would've just called the Turn and River against a relative unknown. I hate making a free showdown play and then getting bet into on the River. I also hate the whole idea of raising and folding to a re-raise, although it's not all that bad here. But be sure when you make this sort of play it isn't in a big pot and you don't have any outs against the hand that would re-raise you. For instance, if the Turn were the Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, you have 2 outs to likely the best hand, which is significant enough to where I'd call down instead of raise.

-Brian

[Schmed]

You may have missed a bet but I wouldn't have a problem with the way you played it.

He may have been betting his flush draw there.

[Luke]

But be sure when you make this sort of play it isn't in a big pot and you don't have any outs against the hand that would re-raise you.

Yeah, one of my major hesitations in making this play in this spot, was that the pot was not all that big. But I did feel that if I were reraised, it would most likely mean a flush making my 7 and 8 outs no good.

By the way, this raise the turn to get the free showdown play is not something I've done all that much up until now. I've bet the turn many times with the intention of taking a free showdown, but not raised very much. I thought this was a good opportunity to try out this play because it was an easy fold if I was reraised, I likely had few outs if I was reraised, and I had something to showdown if I was just called.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Luke

[Brian]

Hi Luke,

I just don't think a free showdown play in this spot is all that powerful. You lose 2 bets either way if he has a Flush. You may not get a free showdown if he just calls your raise and then bets into you again on the River.

I generally make free showdown plays when I have a hand that I will have to call the River with even if I don't improve on the River, and I don't feel that I will be re-raised. An example from HPFAP (not exact):

A /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on a K /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif board. Opponent bets into you, and he won't re-raise you without the nuts. Raise, check behind on the River if you don't Flush.

I don't think your raise on the Turn is alltogether bad. If he re-raises you, you can easily fold. But, it really sucks when he just calls your raise then bets into you on the River.

-Brian

[Luke]

Good points Brian. Thanks for the advice.

Luke

[Klepto488]

I like the play, the raise was good to ensure that you weren't gonna be easily threatened by his predictable flush bluff, that most people would semi-bluff with after the flop anyway. The value bet wasn't worth it just in case he re-raised you after he tried to smooth call his flushon the turn. He would of bet if he had a queen post-flop or pre-flop if he had a high kicker. good play